Are DPs expected to have their own lighting kits?

Finnegan

Finnegan

Well-known member
Relatively simple question. I'm still in school, so for school related projects I'm provided with (mediocre) lighting and for freelance work (which I'm getting into more now that I'm graduating) I generally rent lights from Wooden Nickel in LA if the shoot demands something more professional. But, I wonder, as I get into the professional world of independent short and feature films, music videos, commercial spots, and other things of the sort - are cinematographers expected to have their own lighting kit or is renting just fine provided you don't go over the budget?
 
No. You'd end up using so many different types that you can't own all of them. I do, however, recommend owning a basic kit. At the very least it saves time. If you find yourself using a certain thing over and over it may end up being an investment to get that thing. It's a different situation for me, but since you have so many rental places nearby it just makes sense to mostly use them. As long as you know how to use whatever you need to its best effect, since that becomes the only thing you're selling.
 
Cassius said it! Although, what is a basic kit? If you do interviews and industrial often, perhaps you have one. If you shoot narrative filmmaking, I tend to be all over the board everytime...

My lighting package changes so drastically from shoot to shoot, I'd be hard-pressed to purchase lighting kits... unless I bought LOTS of lights of all different kinds! I would recommend developing a really good relationship with someone who already has lots of lights and then get good deals from him or her.

I try not to invest in anything but myself... although if you have the money... lighting units tend to last a long time! Think 1960's mole Richardsons still pumping strong today!
 
I am slowly picking up some fresnels and other lights whenever I see good deals. However if the director asks me if I have any HMIs I am going to consider walking. The key grip/Gaffer/Lighting technician is the person in charge of making sure we have the proper lighting on set. Wether it be his or a rental.
 
Definitely good to have some of your own lights. I have a kit that I use but really it's not so much a "kit" as a hodge-podge collection of ghetto-fabulous lights older than I am. I've got a studio source made by Century. As in, C-stand, that's what the C is for, before they went out of business or got bought out or whatever. The power cord is three different wires with some kind of sash cord jackets running into a plug. The ground has the copper exposed and you have to re-wrap that around a screw periodically, that's the connection.

I've got a couple of open-face Lowels, no screen or anything like that--don't face towards it in case the globe (bulb) explodes. Got them as the other half a payment in a shady deal. I might have preferred the rest of my money at the time but it's nice to have the lights now, even I had to replace a bunch of stuff on them like globes and power cords and riser screws on the stands. Funny thing was, this uber-sketch deal was with one of my instructors from school, a real white-bread, mid-50s kind of guy.

Got a couple of photo-floods, a couple of worklights. Good for lighting a greenscreen.

Won a Cool Light in one of these DVXFests. I use that all the time.


So you don't really have to spend a lot of money.
 
lairhair said:
I am slowly picking up some fresnels and other lights whenever I see good deals. However if the director asks me if I have any HMIs I am going to consider walking. The key grip/Gaffer/Lighting technician is the person in charge of making sure we have the proper lighting on set. Wether it be his or a rental.
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First of all, the director should very rarely be asking for lighting units... such as an HMI. That is a warning bell just on relationship, not availability of lighting units! With that said, it is the DP's job to determine the type of lighting units to be used on the production, and therefore what is on set. The gaffer will also advise, suggest, and help determine this on most sets... Who actually fills out the rental order and is in charge of physically bringing the equipment to set is different. But most of the time a DP will choose his lighting units to have on set. The Gaffer will contribute and collaborate on those decisions, willing the DP/Gaffer relationship is such.

The key grip should not be in the formula unless he/she is serving as the head of both lighting and grip departments... which would be on smaller productions and such.



Owning a small lighting kit may very well hurt your ability, (if that is all you can get for a show) which is why you should just have a good relationship with a lighting provider of greater resource. Then you don't have to walk off a project because you can't do night exteriors and etc. I feel I have a huge advantage over those who have their own small kits, because i can get a customized kit for your production at a small cost. You get the best lights for the job at a good rate, what is better?

This is why almost all productions on the larger scale rent their cams, lights, and grip equipment. Every project requires different packages... to own everything you might need would be owning everything.
 
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But you don't need to own everything. Any DP should have a small kit for basic stuff. If you need big guns then you rent those. But it's a real pain to be renting a pair of Arri 650s every time I shoot a music video.
 
Yeah, that was my worry. Generally it seems like there are a few key lights that no matter what you're shooting would have a place on set. Building a small kit of those might be a money saver in the long run.
 
I can tell you that if you're doing any amount of documentary work, it's a huge plus. Have a set of tools with you that you know like the back of your hand is invaluable in situations where you've got limited time, space and/or crew. I've worked any number of gigs where I've requested additional things be rented out but I LOVE working with my kit. I know what's there, I know that it works and I know how to make it work best. I've carefully assembled it to be the most efficient and versatile kit for my purposes.

Also, during college, I worked part time as an assistant to a producer for a small NYC production company and from that experience and from shooting out there on my own now, I can tell you that producers love one-stop shopping. It makes it so much easier for them to just rent your kit. No worries on how to get it there or if it's enough or anything like that.

Good luck making your decision.

~~Dave
 
Davdo said:
I can tell you that if you're doing any amount of documentary work, it's a huge plus. Have a set of tools with you that you know like the back of your hand is invaluable in situations where you've got limited time, space and/or crew. I've worked any number of gigs where I've requested additional things be rented out but I LOVE working with my kit. I know what's there, I know that it works and I know how to make it work best. I've carefully assembled it to be the most efficient and versatile kit for my purposes.

Also, during college, I worked part time as an assistant to a producer for a small NYC production company and from that experience and from shooting out there on my own now, I can tell you that producers love one-stop shopping. It makes it so much easier for them to just rent your kit. No worries on how to get it there or if it's enough or anything like that.

Good luck making your decision.

~~Dave
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I'd agree with docu's.... only because long term rental becomes a ***** after a couple of weeks! Plus that is waaaaay different from the narrative workflow I was talking about.
 
Yeah, docs and ENG/EPK kind of stuff benefit from having your own lighting kit and often producers expect EPK to bring their own lights and small grip package because you usually can't use stuff from the production package unless you want to get your ass kicked.
 
i own one soft box.

Thats it.

I rent everyhting else.

Establish a relationship with a Gaffer with a truck. This way if you get him regular work he can cut you a deal that will mean you can use is lights more often on smaller jobs.

I have three guys in NY.

Kevin, Al, and Carl. One has a 1 ton package, one has a 2 ton package, one has a 3ton ( but more like a 5 ton , in terms of lights, just a bit light on grip)

every budget, every scale.
 
Over the course of a year I built a 1/2 ton grip and electric package and within a year it paid itself off. Now, every job I work that rents my lights it is almost all profit (a little income goes to maintenance and upkeep). Some equipment that I don't always need I won't buy, I will just rent them from some one else on a job by job basis. Although if I get to the point where I have rented the same thing 3-4 times I heavily consider buying it. I do if it will fit on my truck and if it will pay itself off in rentals within a year or two.


People buy cameras all the time, they can be outdated within a few years, lights can last several decades. Some of my best lights are almost 40 years old. Every shoot I work I either use what the production already owns or I rent one. I commonly rent my few favorite models but I have paid nowhere near the cost of one specific camera since I have been shooting.
 
I do not expect my DP to own any lights, or even a camera for that matter. Some of the best DPs I know don't own their own camera, because they don't want to be hired based on equipment, but on skills, and they also do a ton of different shoots. The most professional DP I work with is actually the only one of the DPs I use who doesn't have a camera of his own, besides his DSLR, because he gets the most work and he shoots on all formats. He does some 35mm, other times it'll be a Sony F950, recently been using the RED One a few times, he's shot HVX200 for me, etc. It just depends.

I don't expect people to bring or own their own equipment. I'll deal with that. Just bring great skills and a great attitude and I'm happy! :)
 
JonathanLB said:
I do not expect my DP to own any lights, or even a camera for that matter. Some of the best DPs I know don't own their own camera, because they don't want to be hired based on equipment, but on skills, and they also do a ton of different shoots. The most professional DP I work with is actually the only one of the DPs I use who doesn't have a camera of his own, besides his DSLR, because he gets the most work and he shoots on all formats. He does some 35mm, other times it'll be a Sony F950, recently been using the RED One a few times, he's shot HVX200 for me, etc. It just depends.

I don't expect people to bring or own their own equipment. I'll deal with that. Just bring great skills and a great attitude and I'm happy! :)
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You sound like a guy I'd want to work with! :beer:

Well put!
 
I don't have a preference on lighting kits, but as a director who likes to operate, I know the benefit of being very, very familiar with the camera... a "like the back of my hand" level of intuition with the instrument makes a world of difference to me. while i don't have a preference on owning vs renting, I do have a bias toward cinematographers that have an organic understanding of a specific camera, rather than a broad knowledge of many.

I know I'm in the minority, but I do not like collaborating with working professionals who are a jack of all trades (aka "looks"). I like working with artists who specialize, and have developed their own unique voice or visual signature.
 
Zak Forsman said:
I don't have a preference on lighting kits, but as a director who likes to operate, I know the benefit of being very, very familiar with the camera... a "like the back of my hand" level of intuition with the instrument makes a world of difference to me. while i don't have a preference on owning vs renting, I do have a bias toward cinematographers that have an organic understanding of a specific camera, rather than a broad knowledge of many.

I know I'm in the minority, but I do not like collaborating with working professionals who are a jack of all trades (aka "looks"). I like working with artists who specialize, and have developed their own unique voice or visual signature.
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Zak, from what I've heard, you operate often and very well in the minority. :)
 
I'd be there if I could, and I definitely think anyone who can make it, should! I'm currently shooting a documentary in England and won't be back until next month! Keep me in the loop of future events and let me know the next time you screen a film of yours!
 
Ahh, what a community we have here. I'm at that point where I feel comfortable shooting with most digital cams. Unfortunately, I have never had the chance to shoot film and to be honest, it's quite daunting - not being able to see a real-time image of what you're shooting besides looking through the viewfinder of the camera, using lightmeters, not having the option to playback footage you've just shot - it's all kind of scary. But, that's what film school is for: to make it not scary, to make it awesome.

Also, I worry that with all the hype surrounding Red Digital Cinema nowadays and me being a cinematographer with absolutely zero experience shooting Red, that some directors (who may or may not know what the Red even brings to the table) decide to shoot Red because that's what everyone else is doing, and therefore select a different cinematographer when I could have been the better option. I know in most cases the DP is who decides what format to shoot on to best reflect the film's theme, story, and other elements - but often times this isn't the case on ultra low budget productions. How do you combat that? How do you tell a director that an HPX170 or XH-A1 is capable of achieving what he wants when he's set on shooting Red?
 
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