Archival export format from CS5 (equivalent of ProRes)

H

Hywel

Well-known member
Hi All,

I currently edit on FCP on the Mac. One of the guys I collaborate with edits on Premiere Pro CS5 on the PC. I may well purchase CS5 myself at some point, but for the immediate job in hand he needs to be able to pass final output to me so I can build DVDs and encode for our website.

On the Mac, I always export my finished product to ProRes (which is a good archival format for me) and build DVDs and encode via Compressor.

I'm wondering what format to ask him to burn his final graded output to, in order to integrate with the rest of our workflow. Any suggestions?

The original footage is Canon 5DII/7D, I definitely don't want to recompress to such a lossy long-GOP format.

I don't believe that it is possible to export to ProRes from CS5 on a PC, even if you buy QuickTimePro, is that right? I could export to ProRes if I got CS5 on my Mac but would have to transfer the project and all the raw files (and buy CS5 myself!) so that's not a short term fix.

I'm looking for full-frame (not thinned raster) 1080p 25 fps ideally to a 422 10 bit intra-frame codec (so my old fallback DVCPro HD isn't acceptable because of the thinned raster).

Should we try AVCIntra? Can CS5 export to AVCIntra, or is there a better format to export to? I don't want to have to purchase any extra codecs ideally! Is there anything else that should be supported by both CS5 and FCP?

Cheers, Hywel
 
It may, but in all, it's a better solution than exporting an intermediary, both for quality and for flexibility. It's not hard to coordinate which plugins you use -- if any externals at all.
 
We do use plug-ins (Magic Bullet Looks, for sure). We use the same music library, but all the paths will be different, and all the raw footage will be in different places. I'm not at all confident that any exchange mechanism that relies on matching those between two computers with two operating systems will be workable and debuggable on the timescale I need for this project. Co-ordinating may not be hard, but it isn't anything like as straightforward.

So... back to the original question. I definitely want to be able to export to an intermediate file initially. What is the best choice, out of the box, for exporting from PP CS5?

I just want some robust codec to do this exchange. Fiddling about with project exchange we can do at a later date but I still want to have the fallback option of a fully-rendered output file- there's much less to go wrong when all you have to do is to copy a single large file to an external drive :-) Especially since the only thing I'll be doing is exporting to a ProRes intermediate anyway.

Cheers, Hywel.
 
DNxHD , it doesn't come "out of the box", but you download it from avid for free . It's also compatible on MAC. Apple developed ProRes from DNxHD

Other alternative : Cineform (not free)
 
PDR said:
DNxHD , it doesn't come "out of the box", but you download it from avid for free . It's also compatible on MAC. Apple developed ProRes from DNxHD

Other alternative : Cineform (not free)
Click to expand...

Be careful exporting Avid DNxHD straight out of premiere. You will have a gamma shift unless you export it with after effects and using some color management.
 
Demistate said:
Be careful exporting Avid DNxHD straight out of premiere. You will have a gamma shift unless you export it with after effects and using some color management.
Click to expand...

Yes, very good point

v210 is another option that doesn't suffer from gamma shift , but it's uncompressed. I would argue it's better for "archival" which implies storage, not editing performance
 
I'd ask why pass it along at all? CS5 is fully capable of creating the DVD and web output. Why complicate matters by handing it off to another person/platform?
 
Because matters already are complicated by having someone other than the regular editor (me) doing the editing, and I want to minimize the effect on the rest of my established workflow.

My production workflow (which is my job, but the other guy's hobby) is to export to ProRes and use that to encode the DVD and web output. Getting the other guy to do it would involve him learning all sorts of stuff on the PC and me giving him footage to import for the final product. Since I'm the one doing all of the down-stream work, I just want to get the edited master from him in as few steps as possible, then go forward with the rest of my established workflow.

Editing performance is not an issue, but I want something not too ludicrous in file size (this project is only going to DVD and the web, not for projection) but which can stand the extra generation without doing anything too horrid to the footage. I used to do this with DVCPro HD, but on moving to full-raster cameras I've been using ProRes... all I want is something which can exchange "good enough" quality footage so that a 1080p master downscaled to PAL DVD and 720p for web delivery is more or less visually lossless, comes along with sound, and can be read by Final Cut Pro/Compressor/DVD studio/etc. on my Mac.

Blech. Where does the DNxHD gamma shift come from by the way? Is it just a variant on the Quicktime bug? Why should it be different on the PC and the (Snow Leopard, 10.6.6, 2.2 gamma setting) Mac? I probably can get him to export from After Effects if that helps... so the question might be rephrased... what format should I get him to export in from After Effects??

Cheers, Hywel.
 
Good answer.

Well, I think the best option is for you to give up the Mac and go with the same CS5 in a Win 7 rig. Then you both win.
 
... answering my own question, the best bet seems to be Quicktime 10-bit YUV uncompressed. Large file size, but not prohibitive for our project. I can easliy read on the Mac, play around with if needed, and compress to ProRes for archival in something less massive. Shame we can't do it without the intermediate step but it shouldn't be an issue doing it this way I don't think.

Uncompressed AVI wasn't readable on my Mac (at least not in the variant we tried- just couldn't open it on my Mac, may have chosen the wrong settings).

AVCIntra didn't work either in the variant we tried. More puzzled by this... in fact, I have no idea why it didn't work. Log and Transfer saw the clip OK, but couldn't preview it or ingest it. Maybe (???) because Premiere didn't produce a Lastclip.txt file?? Odd.

But hey, we have a solution :-)

Cheers, Hywel.
 
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