Optical disc backup is unreliable for long term. I backed up a number of projects to DVDs over the past few years and wanted to go back to some of them and could not read all of the data on a lot of the discs. I had to use about 10 different computers to finally get the data off. I now keep my backups on hard drives with a minimum of 2 copies. If one drive goes bad I have the other. And hard drive storage is dirt cheap these days, costing less per GB than blank BD discs on average, especially the 50GB ones.
Apple Apple pleez
- Thread starter robertrogoz
- Start date
Optical disc backup is unreliable for long term. I backed up a number of projects to DVDs over the past few years and wanted to go back to some of them and could not read all of the data on a lot of the discs. I had to use about 10 different computers to finally get the data off. I now keep my backups on hard drives with a minimum of 2 copies. If one drive goes bad I have the other. And hard drive storage is dirt cheap these days, costing less per GB than blank BD discs on average, especially the 50GB ones.
It means nothing because they don't tell you how down sales are for both formats. That's why studios are delaying allowing new releases to go to Netflix (physical disc and Instant) and iTunes and other online streaming services. They're even making different versions of the movies for rental. Why? Because sales were dropping dramatically of both DVD and Blu-ray.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
That's why it's called *backup* and not *archive*
So because YOU had a problem, you wish to extrapolate it to the population at large? I'm sorry you had issues. My 3 year old BluRays and my 8 year old DVDs work just fine. And yes, I do check them.
Awesome. Look at ANY analytical data about what happens to stored HDD over time. Compare that to an optical disk kept out of light and heat, that has zero moving parts.
Write your data off to LTO for archival purposes, and/or migrate your data every 2-3 years. Simple.
What's being talked about here is backup, not archive.
I heard from others that backing up to optical media wasn't a good idea. I did it anyways. Wish I hadn't. Fortunately I was able to finally get every file off the discs and didn't lose anything, but it took a very long time. Unreliable optical media is fairly common. I bought higher quality, more expensive, name brands and multiple brands of discs went bad. They were stored in a fire safe too, so never were subjected to light or heat after being burned. Still went bad.
Show me the analytical data please. I've NEVER had a hard drive go bad on me and I've owned A LOT of hard drives. I'm not saying they never go bad, but personal I've never experienced that. I'd say I'd have less a chance of a HDD going bad than optical discs... in fact my track history tells me so. LTO is expensive and you can't just restore it by hooking up a hard drive. I want that convenience so I'd still rather backup to multiple hard drives. Again, if one goes bad I have the other(s).
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
I agree that what is being talked about is backup, and not archive. Which is why I am confused about your comments about long term efficacy of optical disk. Long term storage implies archive, not backup. I used optical as ~1-3 year long backup/short archive. It may last longer than that, but I have no reliance on that.
Again, I am sorry if you've had issues with optical. It is used by any number of people for longish term storage including the feds. In my position at work, I am an archivist for long term government data. I also have to work with other achivists, like the Florida State Archives across the street from me. There are numerous articles, studies, and other manner of data available in those circles talking about archival procedures. Hard Disk storage is barely mentioned. It's simply not done.
As for analytical data, MTBF data is easily available for drives. We have well over 100TB of HD at my office, and that's mirrored elsewhere in hardened locations and geographically dispersed. In my business data loss is simply not acceptable. As for drive failures, I count on about 2-3 per week between the several hundred we have for online storage, and nearly 1000 drives we have out in general circulation.
In the end, we each do what serves our needs. I am protecting a $5M operation with sensitive government data (and some video files). Your needs are likely different than mine, and that's ok.
Again, I am sorry if you've had issues with optical. It is used by any number of people for longish term storage including the feds. In my position at work, I am an archivist for long term government data. I also have to work with other achivists, like the Florida State Archives across the street from me. There are numerous articles, studies, and other manner of data available in those circles talking about archival procedures. Hard Disk storage is barely mentioned. It's simply not done.
As for analytical data, MTBF data is easily available for drives. We have well over 100TB of HD at my office, and that's mirrored elsewhere in hardened locations and geographically dispersed. In my business data loss is simply not acceptable. As for drive failures, I count on about 2-3 per week between the several hundred we have for online storage, and nearly 1000 drives we have out in general circulation.
In the end, we each do what serves our needs. I am protecting a $5M operation with sensitive government data (and some video files). Your needs are likely different than mine, and that's ok.
J Davis
Veteran
Oh boy ... you have made me realize something. I had not considered it might be an internal version of the MiniDisplay Port to HDMI adapter, I really had hoped that the HDMI out on a mac was real.
Thanks for the suggestion anyway – for my purposes I have found the adapter wasn't great when it comes to judging critical gamma or color.
I guess thats why matrox, kona and aja can charge what they do and its back to wanting pci-e or mac pro
(edit: before someone suggests this, I've tried MiniDisplay Port to original Matrox MXO and it wasn't suitable for what I need)
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It sounds like you're talking about a datacenter where the hard drives are on 24/7. I don't think this discussion is about managing, backing up, and archiving a datacenter. This is about backing up projects we've shot. When I backup to a hard drive it gets disconnected and stored away, so MTBF doesn't apply. When I shoot a project the media files are copied to 2 separate drives immediately. When the project is being edited and finished that media is also copied to a RAID-5 array to work from for the duration the project is being completed. Also during that time the 2 backup drives are periodically updated with any new media, project files, etc. When the project is finished the backup drives are updated a final time and then stored away and the RAID-5 array is used for the next project and/or other projects that may already exist on the array and be in process.
Since what is connected to the MiniDisplay Port is essentially a second monitor you can calibrate it with something like the X-Rite Eye One Display 2, Spyder, etc. That might solve those issues for you.
I GREATLY prefer the look of a BR disc store bought film to a digital download any day of the week.
I can watch any number of the films i own in BR in "HD" on Netflix... but its night and day difference visually. BRD just looks amazing.
I can watch any number of the films i own in BR in "HD" on Netflix... but its night and day difference visually. BRD just looks amazing.
J Davis
Veteran
Hey man, thanks for the continued suggestions, I went down that route before and it's not accurate enough for me.
edit: the display port that is, there's nothing wrong with the calibration tools you suggested
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
What I do with video, is separate with what I do for the datacenter. I only offered the datacenter as example of seeing the rate of HDD failures over several thousand drives in the past 10 years.
You might want to contact these folks, as I am sure they would have current information on safe archival procedures of video media:
http://www.amianet.org/
-P
I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately most of the viewing public doesn't care about that as much as us. They want simple and convenient and instant, and that's what streaming is, or is supposed to be.
Batutta
Major Contributor
Interesting...I just got an Apple TV for christmas and was frankly stunned by the quality of the Netflix HD stream I'm getting. It looks nearly as good as blu-ray on my HD projector. I mean very near, like only the most discerning eyes could tell a slight difference. And it's nearly instantaneous. I was expecting something like okay cable compression but its way better than my cable streams. I have a 15mbps internet connection so maybe that's the difference.
You dont quite see the difference untill you see a BRD then watch it on Netflix right after. The Netflix is vastly different. Well to my eyes anyway....
Batutta
Major Contributor
What platform are you watching it on?...I seriously was not expecting it to be so good. I spent the better part of a year calibrating my home theater so I'm pretty discerning. I would in no way call it a vast difference. A hair's difference for me. Again, it may just be the platform you're on, your bandwidth, etc. On Apple TV with a 15mbps internet connection it is pretty awesome. The thing about netflix is that there are hundreds of movies I would never go out of my way to go see, or even rent at the video store. But if it's right there in front of me, in great quality, I can check it out for a few minutes to see if it hooks me. I can take a chance on stuff since Netflix is unlimited viewing anyway...Anyway, I'll be getting rid of my movie channels after the New year that's for sure.
Mark Harris
Pain in the ass
I too was amazed by the quality until that one night when the internet connection slowed down while I was streaming Let the Right One In, and all the blacks got real blocky and nasty, lots of banding all over. Maybe the bandwidth is more variable in a high-density area like NYC. But for movies or shows where I care about the look, I stick to BRD, or download (I still have the old Apple TV that DLs). Streaming may look good now, but I'm not yet ready to rely on it.
Batutta
Major Contributor
I only saw that happen once so far when my wife was downloading something. I have DSL so I don't really share bandwidth with anyone. Plus I'm in a relatively low density part of the world. I'm loving it so far. My biggest hassle was getting my home share working. The phone companies router wasn't passing requests between the ethernet and wireless connections so the Apple TV couldn't see my hard wired computer. I ended up having to add another wireless router off the main one.
PS3 w/ cable modem.
on a ( i must admit i'm ashamed for the nerd factor) professionally calibrated Panasonic 46" Studio plasma.
Netflix HD looks solid, but my BD player is just better enough and the sound quality is phenomenal.
After a huge Windows hiatus I made the switch to Windows 7 about six months ago. I use OSX at work but am so tired of the closed architecture and having to throw everything through prores. CS5 has made the switch pretty painless. I have enough money tied up in Apple, they're not gonna miss me much. Not when they're pretty much an iphone/ipad/ipod company now.
After a huge Windows hiatus I made the switch to Windows 7 about six months ago. I use OSX at work but am so tired of the closed architecture and having to throw everything through prores. CS5 has made the switch pretty painless. I have enough money tied up in Apple, they're not gonna miss me much. Not when they're pretty much an iphone/ipad/ipod company now.
Yes, I totally agree.
I say as I type from my iPad......
Yes Isaac, hell hath froze over, I have an apple product.
I say as I type from my iPad......
Yes Isaac, hell hath froze over, I have an apple product.