Anybody using tungsten still?
- Thread starter SJX
- Start date
Run&Gun
Veteran
I've stated on here countless times that I'm a dyed-in-the-wool tungsten guy, but I am having a hard time right now remembering the last time I used one of my tungsten fixtures. My guess is it had to gave been well over a year ago or more. As a matter of fact, I've completely pulled all of my tungsten out of my truck and it's all sitting in storage. Three Pelican 1650's full and at least two more 1650's worth loose. I did load a few Source Four's up earlier this year for a big shoot, just in-case, but didn't need them.
LED's have gotten to the point where with most of the quality fixtures the quality of light is really good(I hate the term 'good enough') and isn't a big compromise anymore and the conveniences, like bi-color/RGBWW(and other variations of that), battery power and wireless control, have just put them over the edge for most general use cases.
But, they still need to get LED fresnels on par with tungsten fresnels and true HMI equivalents.
And with all of that said, I'll probably never get rid of my tungsten(or HMI's), even if they just sits collecting dust, because you never know...
LED's have gotten to the point where with most of the quality fixtures the quality of light is really good(I hate the term 'good enough') and isn't a big compromise anymore and the conveniences, like bi-color/RGBWW(and other variations of that), battery power and wireless control, have just put them over the edge for most general use cases.
But, they still need to get LED fresnels on par with tungsten fresnels and true HMI equivalents.
And with all of that said, I'll probably never get rid of my tungsten(or HMI's), even if they just sits collecting dust, because you never know...
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I reckon LED still has a huge hole in red making skin look rubbinsh.
Obviously I use LED 99% of time but if I had some time for art Id look at my three 800s again.
There was a link on a thread recently where an led maker was actually thinking aout red.
Obviously I use LED 99% of time but if I had some time for art Id look at my three 800s again.
There was a link on a thread recently where an led maker was actually thinking aout red.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
John Brawley said he used tungsten extensively in his recent Hulu show The Great. He wrote the following on dvxuser:
"I LOVE tungsten because they are CHEAP and the light from them is beautiful and still isn't matched by LED in terms of spectrum. The downsides is HEAT which is a problem in period costumes and power consumption.
HMI is not a very "pretty" light. It's missing in spectrum and individual lamps vary a lot in colour. A huge amount actually. Line up 6 HMI's and you'll get 6 different colour lights, from 6000-8000 and some with green. You can gel and correct them of course, change the globes, but it's a bit more hassle. Take time to warm up, can't be as easily dimmed. They are really bright of course, but I find on stage Tungsten looks prettier and just works."
I personally use mostly LEDs. But I was color correcting a webisode recently that I shot before the lockdown. It's a mix of daylight coming through windows, my LEDs, and tungsten practicals. The light off the practicals definitely looks nicest on the skin, unfortunately. The richest and healthiest color, although the LEDs are OK.
"I LOVE tungsten because they are CHEAP and the light from them is beautiful and still isn't matched by LED in terms of spectrum. The downsides is HEAT which is a problem in period costumes and power consumption.
HMI is not a very "pretty" light. It's missing in spectrum and individual lamps vary a lot in colour. A huge amount actually. Line up 6 HMI's and you'll get 6 different colour lights, from 6000-8000 and some with green. You can gel and correct them of course, change the globes, but it's a bit more hassle. Take time to warm up, can't be as easily dimmed. They are really bright of course, but I find on stage Tungsten looks prettier and just works."
I personally use mostly LEDs. But I was color correcting a webisode recently that I shot before the lockdown. It's a mix of daylight coming through windows, my LEDs, and tungsten practicals. The light off the practicals definitely looks nicest on the skin, unfortunately. The richest and healthiest color, although the LEDs are OK.
Run&Gun
Veteran
ETC
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?367524-ETC-fos-4-Panels
If I had the situation where the environment I could 100% control and the only thing that mattered was making the subject look their absolute best(skin tones), then I'd most definitely pull the Arri's out of (semi)retirement. Heck, it wasn't that long ago, maybe four years, that I added a set of Arri 750 open faces(replaced their 1K's) and a set of big Chimera's solely for that reason. We still don't have any light sources that look as good as the sun and tungsten.
John Brawley
Well-known member
If I can get away with it, I still like braising the talent with hot lights... most recent was a 3-person interview at the DOJ about a week ago. Small rooms or sun fighting I just go LED, but dark complexions especially win so much from a nice old simple RIFA88 1K with a gold bounce.
My teenage Lowel kit just lives in my car. Works just as well as always.
My teenage Lowel kit just lives in my car. Works just as well as always.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Funny you mention. Shot a series of training videos a few weeks ago and used my Luxli Cello as a nice amber hairlight, key and fill were LED, a COB and a cloth panel for under fill. But I didn't have a DC convertor for the Luxli and ran it off batteries. The batteries would die about every hour
and me and my gaffer said to each other, "Next time we do this same setup, we are breaking out my Arri 300 fresnels as hair/rims. No batteries to change, it'll stay on all day and look better."
Tungsten looks better but it's been years since I have lit a full scene with tungsten. If I shot on stages with good HVAC more, I would use my tungsten stuff a lot more often because I 100% agree, they make skin look a lot better than any LEDs. But using LEDs is easier on the talent in small rooms
and easier on the gaffer because we have zero chance of popping circuit breakers in new, unknown as to how the circuits are stacked locations.
and me and my gaffer said to each other, "Next time we do this same setup, we are breaking out my Arri 300 fresnels as hair/rims. No batteries to change, it'll stay on all day and look better."
Tungsten looks better but it's been years since I have lit a full scene with tungsten. If I shot on stages with good HVAC more, I would use my tungsten stuff a lot more often because I 100% agree, they make skin look a lot better than any LEDs. But using LEDs is easier on the talent in small rooms
and easier on the gaffer because we have zero chance of popping circuit breakers in new, unknown as to how the circuits are stacked locations.
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morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Would you have the camera on 3200 or be using full CTB?
Ive always been interested in a blue filter on the lens? tried that?
rob norton
Veteran
Check out shane hurlbut's high octane demo of an arri 750 with a softbox/grid - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8m_AB6VNVM&t=4m36s
I hope we see a resurgence in ESPN/godfather style interview lighting.
Once the next gen of LED COB/attachments are more widespread, I can't wait for people starting out to brag about how LEDs are great because they're so easy to control...
I hope we see a resurgence in ESPN/godfather style interview lighting.
Once the next gen of LED COB/attachments are more widespread, I can't wait for people starting out to brag about how LEDs are great because they're so easy to control...
Several years ago I had placed an order for some tungsten lights to replace the ones my partner had messed up and kept once we parted, and it went on backorder for a long time. Well about 3 years ago..surprise! they became in stock and I got an email they were shipped. I had almost forgotten about them and should have cancelled the order -oops! but I had a LOT of stuff going on. So they arrived and I haven't used them even once...
LEDs are so much easier as others have said. I like the skin tones of tungsten but the ability to power lights anywhere via battery without heat and cords is enough to turn the tide
LEDs are so much easier as others have said. I like the skin tones of tungsten but the ability to power lights anywhere via battery without heat and cords is enough to turn the tide
Run&Gun
Veteran
You mean the original Sports Century lighting? The subject was easy. Key only(Chimera w/eggcrate and 1/4-1/2 CTB). No hair/edge, no fill. Then we spent 17 hours lighting the background... Or it felt like it, sometimes... At the end of the original SD series, we had it down to a formula and you could set up an entire interview in about 45 minutes, but the ORIGINAL Top 50 Greatest that started the series, the guys got an entire day to light.
The dramatic, no-fill style has always been what I've liked. It's still pretty damn rare when I use any fill in an interview.
John Brawley
Well-known member
Cameras are always a bit noisier at 3200K over 5000k which really means there’s a bit less DR at 3200k.
A lot of guys In the early RED one days were using an 80C or 80D filter on tungsten lit stage work. We all realised it was a negligible difference and no one does it any more.
I usually shoot at 3200k, even though most tungsten hits the sensor at 3000k.
On The resident I had daylight house fittings that were led tubes at 5600k and had “sunlight” as tungsten lamps from off set through windows. Camera WB was 4000K.
Gave a nice mix of warm and cool in the image. I tried to stage action where the main cast would be keyed by tungsten skipped from the floor, lit by actual tungsten on the floor. Use the led for ambience and in the BG.
https://flic.kr/p/2euvm9h
https://flic.kr/p/Sin9nL
https://flic.kr/p/RBCzSy
https://flic.kr/p/2dEZMD5
https://flic.kr/p/SimKn7 ( check out the eye reflections )
https://flic.kr/p/2eczJcF
https://flic.kr/p/2ertVjK
JB.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
JB
Very interesting an nice look.
Heare was a stage? and no sunlight.
I think we all 'hate' tungsten because you need so much of it to fill against the sun (CTB) - in that role LED wins for the non generator shooter.
Im somewhat suprised you could* go so yellw/red with the skin,.. but it works really well
*were allowed by the suits.
Very interesting an nice look.
Heare was a stage? and no sunlight.
I think we all 'hate' tungsten because you need so much of it to fill against the sun (CTB) - in that role LED wins for the non generator shooter.
Im somewhat suprised you could* go so yellw/red with the skin,.. but it works really well
*were allowed by the suits.
SJX
Veteran
I first thought they were screen grabs from the Alexa and I was like, it somehow doesn't look Alexa. Then I saw they were behind the scenes shots made with a stills camera. But what situations do you used the Ursa over the Alexa?
SJX
Veteran
I think today many are afraid of lighting interviews this way. Or maybe it's budget.
Can't be budget... I was lighting interviews like this with an egg-crated RIFA 55 kit a decade ago, on my HVX and GH-freaking-2. RIFA 88 1K soft boxes can be had for $200-300... less than even the egg crate for a 1x1 panel.
More likely, it's the "our CFO has this lovely office with all this natural light and these floor-to-cieling windows that look out on all this distracting crap, so we'd like to use that space." It used to be a simple nix from the wattage/heat/sunfighting/taste angle, now we often just say "OK" and dump a ton of clinical-looking, warmth-free LED in there. Doing one of those shoots tomorrow, matter of fact, and don't have any say because it's matching previous work that I wasn't a part of.
Plenty of CMOS cameras do lose DR at 3200... which is IMO a non-issue, because the single-soft-source look is only aided by contrast.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
For me, it's just clients. The look has to fit the mood of the piece and most of our clients most of the time want flat, soft, boring lighting so that colors pop and talent looks friendly.
I love when I get to work on an occasional project where I can get moody and do fun stuff like this. But it's becoming more rare.