anybody ever crowd-fund their film?

John C Lyons

John C Lyons

Veteran
So up to this point everything we have done at Lyons Den Productions has been completely self-financed. We still shoot on a single DVX100A. Sorry, but the look of HD is too pretty and uber-real for my stories. Still self-distribute (although our most recent feature "Schism" has made it to some outside outlets). And handle most pre and post-production tasks ourselves.

This time out though, for our new feature "There Are No Goodbyes" I was convinced to try and get a little help on the front end. I was resistent for awhile because I'm just not comfortable asking for financial assistance from others. I'll ask for their location or to lend a hand on the crew, but not hand over their hard-earned cash.

So we've went the IndieGoGo route. This site attracted me because unlike others like Kickstarter, if you don't reach your goal, you get to keep what you raised and you didn't just waste a whole lot of people's time and effort because you came up $5 short of the target. The thing that attracted me most was being able to build the audience along with the production. Contribute $100 and we'll share some exclusive footage with you. $300 you get to come to the wrap party and 3 pairs of tickets to the premiere. Contribute even more and you can come on as a producer and get to give us feedback on rough cuts of the film. You know, REALLY get people involved.

So, long story short, and pardon me if I posted this in the wrong spot but I really didn't see a good place for PR, crowdfunding, etc (all of which is pretty damned important) has anyone else had any luck with these types of Campaigns? Do you have any tips to share? I'm in my last 2 weeks of the campaign and we're about halfway to our goal. I'm really impressed with what we've done so far, I've even made a promotional video about the movie, the campaign, and everyone involved (linked below).

But I'm wondering what ideas some of you have tried to get people on board. To cross the finish line strong if you will.

Thanks guys, I always welcome your feedback and critiques.

 
Kholi on the forum did this through kickstarter. You should check out his thread and glean for useful tips.

Crowd fixed.
 
Thanks Noel.
I didn't really see any Kickstarter tips on the thread for his movie. Maybe he'll see this thread and comment.

No one else here has ever crowd-funded?
 
thanks for the bump, Terry. I'm heading out the door now (filming tonight) but we are in our last 35 Hours of the Campaign now and I will try and post more tonight or tomorrow. At this point we probably aren't going to reach our $5000 goal, but I consider the campaign a huge success as we have gained some great supporters and some very important gear in the process. More soon! Please spread the campaign around if you'd like to help the cause:

http://www.indiegogo.com/ThereAreNoGoodbyes
 
Noel Evans said:
Kholi on the forum did this through kickstarter. You should check out his thread and glean for useful tips.

Crowd fixed.
Click to expand...

Thanks Noel. P.S., Private KickStarter Update coming soon. Pretty substantial one. =]

John C Lyons said:
Thanks Noel.
I didn't really see any Kickstarter tips on the thread for his movie. Maybe he'll see this thread and comment.

No one else here has ever crowd-funded?
Click to expand...

Saw the thread, Lyons! Surprised I missed it... I'm out of touch, these days. But, here you go.

SUPERSEEDS kickstarter page: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2099062204/superseeds-a-super-powered-action-comedy?ref=email


SUPERSEEDS DVXuser Thread: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...uperhero-Action-Comedy-(Rainfall-Films-Kholi-) (find production and footage stills there as well)

Quote from the thread on Crowdfunding and Fundraising:

Kholi said:
[10/24(23/10] - The (Fun)draiser

Right to the point... you don't have money. Well, I don't have money. And, I define money as large sums of capital to start any venture without risking your financial health. Most of us can't do that, aren't willing to do that, are scared to do that. So, we have to look elsewhere to find the capital we need to start (and finish!) our projects, and that can be a pretty fun adventure.

But, where do you look?

If you've been following Superseeds' progress, then you probably saw the Kickstarter page (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2099062204/superseeds-a-super-powered-action-comedy?ref=search) go live about a month ago. We've successfully ended our Kickstarter campaign and now I'd like to share some thoughts on the whole fundraising bit with those who'd like to know.

I don't plan on sugar coating anything, so be warned... it's pretty realistic from the get go. I'm going to preface this with something that's very very important to understand, because I've taken the time out to check how people are funding their efforts and there's one EXTREMELY obvious difference between those who have gotten their capital (through any means) and those who haven't:

Is your project even worth the money you're trying to raise? Who cares about it aside from yourself? Be realistic about this: if no one cares, no one shares. That means no one's going to tweet or facebook, talk about or blog about, mention or converse about what you're doing. And, rest assured you probably are not going to raise a heap of cash to get with it. I've learned from this experience that if you're shooting for a mass marketable nano-budget feature film with very little to comment on about the state of the world, science, important global topics then you're in a HEAP of trouble when it comes to raising money.

Mark Harris and Barry Green are right: If you have nothing to say, you should probably wait until you do. Or until you can fund it all on your own. Hollywood can already do this kind of stuff, people are fed it all the time bad or good so why would anyone but close family and friends support your effort? The cash-in is with people who aren't related to you in any way and just want to see this gem shine. I will openly admit that if it were not for people believing in my talent (you're all crazy) and what I've learned grinding my way through Los Angeles, the connections, that Kickstarter would've stayed far... FAR below the goal.

Take it to heart, or with a grain of salt... but, make sure you think about it before you step out and try to grab people's money. Make sure it's worth something to others, not just yourself.

I'm only being honest with myself by saying not very many people care about Superseeds. Everyone who really does is involved directly with it or want to se me succeed. That's fine, we achieved our goal, but it wasn't easy.

I know why Superseeds is the project I chose, though, that's an entirely new blog/post, however, and it's quite pertinent to the process.

1. Presentation
This is the second most important note to pin to your wall. You really need to present your project well if you want to grab any dough to do it with. Here's a very well illustrated example... in video form:

http://www.vimeo.com/15151674

This is NOT a good presentation, nor is it indicative of the kind of quality that we were pitching for the project. There's nothing wrong with the actors, considering it was all improv they did wonderful. I also sprung this on them last minute during a fitting in my little cube of an apartment, these guys rock.

However, the image quality is pretty blah, the sound is terrible and it doesn't really show much of what the production team is about; it's the wrong foot to step out on, and I nearly broke my ankle.

Whatever you're doing, make sure your presentation is as strong as possible out of the gate. That means stills, posters, production company information and especially the BEST video you can deliver showcasing your previous work or actual footage from the project if it has commenced principal photography.

Presentation is universal across fundraising efforts, no matter if that's in-person meetings with potential investors or crowdfunding on Kickstarter or IndieGogo. Pretend you only get one chance and make it good the first time out.

The second video on the kickstarter is much better, yet to me still lacks the punch needed to really garner attention.

NOTE: Going back to the original concept of "Say Something", the less you have to say that's important, the harder you have to work to get your nano-budget no-named project off the ground. Remember that.

2. Avenues for Funding

All parts are equally tricky. Locating dollars is tough, especially in this financial climate. Not many people even have twenty-five dollars to spare, that's enough money to feed yourself for two days or yourself and a kid if you have one. Why would they hand it to you? And, all of those infamous doctors that just have money lying around? You can definitely say goodbye to that; these guys are pawning their watches just to keep their wives.

The first avenue I think a nano-budget filmmaker or producer should explore is SELF. By that I mean you should consider working your ass off, donating blood, finding ways to gather as much capital for your feature as possible on your own. There's really no one else that'll care about getting the project started as much as you, it's my belief that you should also have a serious financial stake in whatever you're doing.

It's because of that, I've learned, that the people who've put in serious money for Superseeds have done so. I've openly shared that I'm putting money on the line that I have to eat and pay rent with, so that makes them feel much more comfortable, knowing that I'll do what I can to recoup and quadruple my personal investment.

Cut down your cable bill, sell your vehicle and get one that you don't have to pay payments on, then lower the insurance to liability. Stop drinking, stop smoking, this is also a really good time to go on a diet, by the way!

Once you illustrate commitment to your own financial future and well being, other people will take you much more seriously, then you'll have a slightly easier time prying dollars out of their fists.

Immediately afterward, you should consider the actual act of FUNDRAISING. Set up a car wash with yourself and two friends, sell off merchandise for your feature, do a bake sale and invite the entire neighborhood. Let them know what it's about and offer some incentive for people to give up the money. I think Kickstarter and IndieGogo have reintroduced the concept of the old fashioned door-to-door fundraiser in a digital world, and it's awesome.

While you can certainly use Kickstarter and IndieGogo to start your project, you need to keep in mind that they both charge a fee.

-- Kickstarter: You will only receive money if you meet your goal by the deadline. No goal? No money. If you DO meet your goal, then you're going to be charged five percent (5%) and on top of that, another three percent (3%) from Amazon Payments!!! That's nearly TEN PERCENT of your funds raised going elsewhere!

-- IndieGogo: Similar to Kickstarter, but you get to keep the money even if you don't meet your goal. They charge an even HIGHER percentage if you don't meet your goal.

Of the two, I think Kickstarter sounds much more fair to the people buying what you're selling, be it t-shirts or baseball caps, pre-selling DVDs, etc. So, because it sounds safer, they're willing to throw their credit card on the line.

-- Chip-In: It's actually not a fundraising site, but more so a module to place on a page or on your facebook, twitter so that people can throw money into a Paypal account. So far, this is the cheapest online method of Fundraising I could source. Paypal only charges three percent and Chip-In doesn't charge ANY fees for using their module. The flipside to this is that you need to create an entirely separate entity for your fundraising effort that you manage. You'll have wager whether or not it's worth your time to keep your extra five percent.

And, of course, as mentioned, the door-to-door fundraiser. Get out there and get hands on with an audience wherever you can. Raise the money with your presence, or hire someone else if your presence isn't ideal.

As an extra effort of ours, we plan on selling off the excess t-shirts and caps from our Kickstarter fund and more. Every dollar helps! EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR!

TIPS: Be thankful, if not overly thankful. Even if a person kicks in a dollar make sure they feel that they've done a great thing. Every single dollar helps, and they'll likely tell their friends about it once they realize that they have chipped in and are a part of the process.

Make your rewards count, but don't bleed out the money you raise. A decent t-shrit costs about five dollars or more if you get a great deal on bulk, then you have to consider shipping and handling. A round-about number for each t-shirt sold is probably twelve to fifteen dollars (12.00 ~ 15.00). If you have a reward set at twenty-five dollars (25.00) then you're only going to see ten of it. If you're on Kickstarter, that's about Nine dollars, actually.

Choose your rewards wisely.

2(a). Investors

Investors are not donaters, backers, pledgers. Donations, backs, pledges do not have to be paid back. You're going to be delivering to these people movie schwag or similar. Investors are people who you plan on paying back and THEN some.

First born in some cases.

Seeking out investors requires some sort of understanding as to how business works. That means you should have a semblance of a feature film business plan that's well-written and moderately detailed on what the project plans to achieve financially, how much it will take to do so, where the money is going, your distribution plan, on and on and on.

A business plan is not very fun to write. I did a "business brief" and although it was an interesting and enlightening experience, I sort of do not want to do it again. A legal agent or lawyer should be handling this for you. Yet another hidden cost of the process.

It's important the investor will want to know that his or her money is being used for exactly what's outlined and that they are investing in a professional organization, not just someone who wants money. For this, you'll probably need to start an LLC for your feature.

Hidden cost number three-thousand and seven. There are a lot of places on the internet to get your LLC started, but for the broke and budgetless feature filmmaker it's not cheap. Necessary, but not cheap.

These sorts of people have money because they know how to manage it...in most cases. They aren't going to go for a verbal pitch with no paperwork to back it up. Take the time to research what I've said above and try to exhibit yourself as close to the real deal as possible.

They'll spot that you're new to this, you need a little polishing here and there, but most will take it as a show of responsibility and an earnest attempt to achieve something more, and that will be something that they want to invest time and money into, to grow their own wallet and relationships.

And, of course, the investor will want to know what they're getting for their money. What are you offering? I can't reveal here what I've offered my investors, but it's definitely a worthwhile investment if we achieve the goal I outlined in the Business Brief.

Typically, an investor will be offered the chance to earn several times the amount of what they've invested. More than likely much more than you're going to get when it's all said and done.

Such is the way of the business.

Search for your investors through friends and family, as you'll have a higher chance of being able to sit with them at a dinner conversation to discuss the project. And aim for a realistic investment goal.

It's not very likely, unless you know someone that owns a few yachts, that you're going to get someone to hand you one-hundred thousand dollars (100,000.00) to get your feature started.

It's more likely that someone may hand you ten-thousand dollars, though, if they believe they can profit from the venture in a timely fashion.

TIPS: Presentation, presentation, presentation. Drill it into your head. It's also very important to read other business plans, or get someone who's written them before to do one for you. You don't want to step out on the wrong foot, again. Pretend you only have one shot and make it count.

It's my own principal, but while it's primarily about the money, make sure that you don't make your investor feel greedy. We all want a comfortable lifestyle, a lot of us want to be a part of something really awesome too. Make sure you've got the future in mind and where your business relationship could go from there.

Never promise anything. You can't. You will lose and then you will make people angry. Be realistic and back yourself up with numbers, facts, not lottery ticket cases (I'm looking at you, Paranormal Activity).

And, lastly, a few keywords: Earn, Opportunity, Realistic, Future Endeavor, Relationship, Partnership.

3. Budget it for the worst case scenario

Just plan on not having money. That's the reality, that's what you have to do. But, don't see that as a negative thing: a lot of seasoned filmmakers constantly say that they are at their best when challenged. Lots of money can ruin a project just as easily as having no money.

Be prepared to have nothing to shoot on, and adjust your story accordingly.

Some additional information on sourcing funding:

Remember to keep it legal and professional. Don't get yourself tied up in tax and IRS trouble, research what you're doing and make sure you're handling money properly.

Outreach to groups that you know will enjoy your content. There are so many Kickstarter campaigns that work because they've hit a very strong vein with a community that would love to see what they have come to life. Get out there and connect with your audience.

Don't be afraid to push. If someone shows an honest interest in your work, keep at them but don't be forceful. You need to sell them on why this is the opportunity to bank on.

Don't be afraid to ASK. People who do not ask, do not receive. If you expect to be fed without opening your mouth, you're going to starve.

Give yourself time. Make sure you prepare for the process. I actually short changed our Kickstarter by not putting up enough time. PLAN AHEAD! MAKE TIME TO RAISE MONEY! Getting yourself into a crunch will hurt your chances of succeeding by miles.

Stay positive. There are no problems, only solutions. Even if it's a false positive and in the back of your head you're saying "this isn't going to happen....", eventually the positive thought in the front of your mind will obliterate the negative one. At that point, people will see it in your eyes and your actions and they will be willing to entertain your thoughts.

Good luck, and feel free to inquire in the thread!
Click to expand...

Gonna post in response to your thoughts as well.
 
John C Lyons said:
So up to this point everything we have done at Lyons Den Productions has been completely self-financed. We still shoot on a single DVX100A. Sorry, but the look of HD is too pretty and uber-real for my stories. Still self-distribute (although our most recent feature "Schism" has made it to some outside outlets). And handle most pre and post-production tasks ourselves.
Click to expand...

I feel you on the self-financed. The actual Budget of Superseeds isn't what Kickstarter reflects. I'm not fibbin' when, in the Kickstarter video, I proclaim to eat Ramen and Corn on a nightly basis. Now that I'm in the editing bay, I've graduated to Cookies and Orange Juice... I do dip my cookies in OJ; it's good, stop makin' that face.

This time out though, for our new feature "There Are No Goodbyes" I was convinced to try and get a little help on the front end. I was resistent for awhile because I'm just not comfortable asking for financial assistance from others. I'll ask for their location or to lend a hand on the crew, but not hand over their hard-earned cash.
Click to expand...

This is a good idea. Do remember one thing: once you tap someone for cash for your own personal project, if they aren't getting the money back and they aren't well set enough to do so, you've probably burned a source of capital.

Make it count.

So we've went the IndieGoGo route. This site attracted me because unlike others like Kickstarter, if you don't reach your goal, you get to keep what you raised and you didn't just waste a whole lot of people's time and effort because you came up $5 short of the target. The thing that attracted me most was being able to build the audience along with the production. Contribute $100 and we'll share some exclusive footage with you. $300 you get to come to the wrap party and 3 pairs of tickets to the premiere. Contribute even more and you can come on as a producer and get to give us feedback on rough cuts of the film. You know, REALLY get people involved.
Click to expand...

It's a really cool thing, the web crowd-funding deal. There's a lot of positives about it, more so than I can think of any negatives. The primary I mentioned above, another negative is that it opens your project up to the world so people can, and probably will, rip your stuff if it's good enough to be ripped.

The other thing is that you should probably be prepared to update everyone who dropped money on your personal project as often as possible. It may not seem like a big deal, but when you have little attention to spare in the first place it becomes difficult.

I've been terrible about updating our kickstarter friends, I haven't wanted to just post "Oh we're shooting today, woop woop!" and have been waiting to gather up a trailer or something that really shows where the pledges went.

That's gonna happen soon.

Other than that, it's a pretty fun experience (if not draining because you really have to push it out there) and you definitely make yourself aware to a lot of people that may not have known you were doing the filmmaking thing. That happened to me, and brought one interesting contact.

Make sure the pledges are worth it... my own really weren't, but I noticed too late.

So, long story short, and pardon me if I posted this in the wrong spot but I really didn't see a good place for PR, crowdfunding, etc (all of which is pretty damned important) has anyone else had any luck with these types of Campaigns? Do you have any tips to share? I'm in my last 2 weeks of the campaign and we're about halfway to our goal. I'm really impressed with what we've done so far, I've even made a promotional video about the movie, the campaign, and everyone involved (linked below).

But I'm wondering what ideas some of you have tried to get people on board. To cross the finish line strong if you will.
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I think I mention this already, but I'd take Kickstarter over IndieGogo. If I were on the giving end, I'd be more comfortable knowing that if the money wasn't raised in full I wouldn't be handing my dough over to be burned away by the filmmakers.

I think that's an incentive that makes Kickstarter more attractive to the giving party, less the receiving.

I mean, if you say "this is our goal and we won't take your money unless we hit it" versus "this is our goal but if we don't hit it we're still gonna use your money"... which are you likely to trust?

Anyway, open for questions or hate mail. Will answer.

Shoot it up!
 
i have a question. what happens to the money you raise but don't spend on the project? do you just pocket it?
 
ugafan said:
i have a question. what happens to the money you raise but don't spend on the project? do you just pocket it?
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Vegas.

Kidding.

Technically speaking: as long as you make good on your rewards/pledges, you could do whatever you wanted.

Karmatically speaking: slip and fall backward off of a ladder.

Filmmakerly speaking: WHAT!? There's money that you WON'T SPEND!?
 
jleo said:
Some crowd-funding tips here:

http://www.diysucks.com/2011/01/kickstarter-and-indiegogo-and-buckets-of-cash.html
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In my case, with my initial campaign at IndieGoGo I generally tend to agree on their opinion that "donations come from people you already know". Of our 34 contributers at this point, only 4 or 5 were from people I never met before. Although I will say that these surprise contributions amounted to about $750 which to me says we did a good job on the campaign video and page at IndieGoGo.
 
John C Lyons said:
In my case, with my initial campaign at IndieGoGo I generally tend to agree on their opinion that "donations come from people you already know". Of our 34 contributers at this point, only 4 or 5 were from people I never met before. Although I will say that these surprise contributions amounted to about $750 which to me says we did a good job on the campaign video and page at IndieGoGo.
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It's definitely great to have unknowns throwing in. That's where I feel the real success' at because it shows you've got a product that SOMEONE wants to watch.
 
Hey Kholi (or anyone else), did you ever advertise/promote your fundraising campaign? For instance, I've seen at least one ad on FB for a Kickstarter project, and was wondering if that would be a good way to go. FB ads are relatively cheap, and really effective if you have a niche target.

Thanks for the great info, by the way. It's great that people take the time to post so much helpful advice and real-world experience.
 
Terry_Lasater said:
Kholi, thanks for dropping in and offering up your experiences. Much appreciated.
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Nooo problem, Terry. Not gospel, bu-t if any tid bits help then cool. Open for questions.

Michael Traven said:
Hey Kholi (or anyone else), did you ever advertise/promote your fundraising campaign? For instance, I've seen at least one ad on FB for a Kickstarter project, and was wondering if that would be a good way to go. FB ads are relatively cheap, and really effective if you have a niche target.

Thanks for the great info, by the way. It's great that people take the time to post so much helpful advice and real-world experience.
Click to expand...

If you can afford to advertise something on FB or anywhere else, do it. At the very least you're creating awareness for the project/yourself, and all press is good press for people at our level. I did have a banner on DVXuser for a while, but I'm not sure if it generated anything actually. Nor did the banner on the Rainfall site.

Edit here: the THREADS on DVXuser generated plenty. Tipota came out of nowhere with a crazy pledge and I had never talked to the guy. He's a really nice fella and is knee deep in his own production. I think the Threads did more because I had to be active and present, show up for it, y'know? But they helped a lot. The other end of that is that I've been a part of the community for years and sharing (mostly e-fighting lol) with everyone.

What really generated a lot of the money was spamming the hell out of my own facebook, and then the people who pledged spammed their facebooks to hades and back. You sort of have to encourage (read:annoy) people to a point, and try to convince.

The other thing about the niche target, if you have it built into your project, is that you can go to blogs and forums to promote. For example: If I were going to do a feature on street racing and auto tuning, I would buy ads on some of the biggest user forums and jump on the forum, express my interest in the culture and then start talking to people about what they would like to see, or would HATE to see, in a movie like this.

Buying the Ad on the forum gets you access to the mods who will immediately become interested because it has to do with their site. That'll also give you some backup, barring that you can convince those guys or gals that it's a good product, to roll into the forum and beat people over the head for dollars by showing them what you're up to.
It's basically a virtual fundraiser, and you need to be present to raise the funds me thinks.
 
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The one thing about Indie gogo is that you can get fiscal sponsorship through their partner Arts Engine that allows all the donations to be tax deductible if your film meets the criteria. Kickstarter doesn't offer that. I am debating this right now myself, I know the Indie gogo people well and they are good folks with a lot to offer but I also think there is something to the Kickstarter recipe that may help increase the dollars.

Ive seen friends have success and failure with both.
 
bosindy said:
The one thing about Indie gogo is that you can get fiscal sponsorship through their partner Arts Engine that allows all the donations to be tax deductible if your film meets the criteria. Kickstarter doesn't offer that. I am debating this right now myself, I know the Indie gogo people well and they are good folks with a lot to offer but I also think there is something to the Kickstarter recipe that may help increase the dollars.

Ive seen friends have success and failure with both.
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I'm being superficial (as usual) but I think it's partially because of the way that Kickstarter presents the materials and itself. Can't put my finger on it, but something about the IndieGogo site just looks (edit: cheap not the right word) weird, or something.

To me, anyway.

I actually had no idea about the fiscal sponsorship deal. That's a good incentive .Thanks for sharing.
 
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