Any tips while working with actors in an improv setting?

[Lee Stokes]

For my current project, I am going to use improv elements to create my story.

I will be holding 4 "workshops" involving 2 actors, a writer and myself (director) to formulate a script. We will brainstorm ideas, themes, concepts, characters. Then based on that brainstorming, we'll come up with a story, then dialog/action.
On our shoot date, we'll have a script, we won't be improvising in front of the camera, btw.

Anyways, any advice on working with actors that are improvising?

All I know about the project is that we're using two women actors, it will be drama, and our story should be based on relationships (as opposed to issues, per se').

Lee

 

[Ted Spencer]

Improvising and writing are completely different things, so typically for actors to improvise a scene or parts of it they need a specific scenario. Like Jane wants to have an affair with Julie's husband because he's hot, but Julie wants to prevent her because her financial survival, and that of their kids, depends on it. In a nutshell, give the actors a scene setup with something at stake. Good actors will be able to take that and run with it. From that you may be able to flesh out the story more fully.

One thing I'd add is that if you rely on actors to do much in the way of developing an actual storyline for you, you should be prepared to credit them accordingly. Using their improvised narrative thread(s) and then taking credit yourself as writer would be pretty shabby under the circumstances IMO.

 

[Lee Stokes]

Yes, the first 'workshop' is to brainstorm ideas, concepts, scenarios, etc, so that for the second workshop, we'll have definite scenarios for our actors to work through.

As for credit, it's important to me that everyone gets the credit they feel like they deserve. I want the writer (who is a semi-professional writer) to get a "written by" credit, but depending on how things go, perhaps a "story by" everyone who contributes.
My writer will be writing the script based on the things we come up in the workshops.

The model I am using is sort of how John Cassavetes worked his stories/scripts, although in a much condensed amount of time.

Lee

 

[rsbush]

The model I am using is sort of how John Cassavetes worked his stories/scripts, although in a much condensed amount of time.

Other than 'Shadows' Cassavetes first film, all his films started with a script. It sounds much more like what Mike Leigh does. And the only good place to really get a firm grip on his approach is in his book 'Mike Leigh on Mike Leigh.' He has said many times over that he deliberately gives misleading information in interviews about his process. But the book is full of great information.
If you don't have any improvisational training, you should have someone around who does. Everyone needs to be on the same page approachwise (if that's a word) or it leads to all kinds of problems, anticipating, being glib, not sticking to the given set of circumstances and on and on. The very basics to a well arranged dramatic improv are: The given set of circumstances - everything in common the actors need to know and nothing more; at least one objective - what one wants from the other, to find out the truth, to get some money etc.; opinions - what each player thinks of the other (extremely important and almost always overlooked) "I don't trust her", "he's cheap" etc. and whomever doesn't have an objective definetly needs an independant activity - something outside of themselves to take the attention off of themselves, washing dishes, getting ready to go out etc.
This style of improv is Sanford Meisner's.

 

[bruceallen]

My 2c: 4 sessions won't cut it for workshopping a script.

If you want to workshop something good, you have to build interesting characters and scenes. This takes time, insights, luck...

I would not set a shoot date until I had found something really compelling.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Lee Stokes]

I would not set a shoot date until I had found something really compelling.
Bruce Allen

Too late, we shoot Feb 26.

If I find out it was a bad idea, we have wasted very little time. If its a great idea, I can make it a bigger production next time.
This is an experiment on my part, since I haven't done anything quite like this. I am testing it to see if its something viable. I am fortunate enough to have several people on board, and understanding of what we're trying to do.

Lee

 

[Lee Stokes]

Other than 'Shadows' Cassavetes first film, all his films started with a script. I

Yes, they started with a script, but the script he started with wasn't what he ended up shooting, as he'd work with his troupe of actors through improvisation to manipulate and hone the characters and scenes.
True, I am not starting with a script at all, but will end up with one.

I will check out Mike Leigh, people keep mentioning him to me, and while I have seen a couple of his movies, haven't delved into his process, sounds like I should.
Lee

 

[rsbush]

Understood. But the difference between improvising on a script and finding a script by improvising is tremendous. Which is why I noted Cassavetes' approach.

Do check out Mike Leigh, you'll be glad you did. If anything, he will at the very least give you confidence that your approach is indeed viable. Best of luck.

 

[Kess]

Most of the Christopher Guest films are improvised, but they have developed the scene ideas and use actors that are extremely talented in improv. Check out Best In SHow, Waiting For Guffman, Spinal Tap, etc. Very difficult to do. Let us know how your film plays out.

Curtis Kessinger
"Just Shoot It!" filmmakng book

 

[D.Mur]

That seems like a bit much to ask of your actors in only four sessions. I've done improve work with actors before, and I've noticed without fail the more anchored an actor is in the character/story the better their improv will be (and vice versa). Maybe you're on to something, but I think I would have really poor results attempting to do as much as you are in such a short time frame.

Also, it seems like these workshops could become unfocused and all over the place without entering with some core idea or spine of your story. I'd suggest focusing the work somehow before bringing it to your talent.

I had a mentor who spoke a lot about "sitting in the question" and having the discipline to take the time you need to focus your stories. It may take you four workshops just to sit in the question! Let alone to start developing interesting scenarios/characters/character backstory ect ect.

 

[Lee Stokes]

That seems like a bit much to ask of your actors in only four sessions. I've done improve work with actors before, and I've noticed without fail the more anchored an actor is in the character/story the better their improv will be (and vice versa). Maybe you're on to something, but I think I would have really poor results attempting to do as much as you are in such a short time frame.

Also, it seems like these workshops could become unfocused and all over the place without entering with some core idea or spine of your story. I'd suggest focusing the work somehow before bringing it to your talent.

I had a mentor who spoke a lot about "sitting in the question" and having the discipline to take the time you need to focus your stories. It may take you four workshops just to sit in the question! Let alone to start developing interesting scenarios/characters/character backstory ect ect.

Like I have tried to say, this is merely an experiment for me and my actors. Maybe it is too much. But we'll not know if we don't try, right? Can't blame someone for trying, can you? The goal isn't to win an Oscar, the goal is to create a short 5 minute movie. I am not going to re-define film making or create careers, I am simply seeing if this way of creating a story is at all viable. I am fortunate enough to have several people buy into this experiment, thats all.

For me to focus the work before bringing it to my actors would defeat the whole idea of what I am trying to do here. I want the actors to be the drivers behind the characters at least, and story if possible, and use the writer to refine the actors output. The actors being an equal part of the collaboration is all part of the point.
If I wanted to bring something focused, I'd just sit down and write a script, cast it and film. Again, I am lucky to find people who are willing to dive headlong into a project without having the exact result defined. I think thats exciting.

I think what your mentor offered in terms of advice surrounding "sitting in the moment". But it doesn't wholly pertain to my project since I only have four workshop sessions. Again, maybe I am making a huge mistake by attempting this project or placing the constraints on it that I have, but I am more excited than nervous or overwhelmed.

Thank you for your thoughts!
Lee

 

[gonzo_entertainment]

I'd need a bottle full of Valium to not ax murder someone because I'm a "you will deliver the line as written in the script without deviating by one syllable" kind of guy.

 

[Kess]

I like to stay on script...then give them one or two takes to do whatever they want...time and money permitting. It allows for some exploration, but I can't imagine getting decent footage out of a completely improved setting.

www.filmschoolnow.com
Just Shoot It! book - 2nd edition

 

[Rolf Silber]

If you see it as an experiment of sorts: do it.

But basically what you attempt to do is a meeting of a writer who is a writer, a writer who is a director, and two writers who are actors to discuss and decide what the story you four want to shoot is about. So it's you with your co-authors talking and finding ways of finding a story and the danger is that it can become a film.... well ... about a story of four people hoping to have found a story worthwhile to tell. This can become in a bad way a very "French" film. Heavy-duty existentialism written on all walls.

I, personally, think it should be the other way round: A strong idea - how fuzzy it may be in the beginning - searching it's way into existence. Maybe with the help of some improvisation. Still: Do it and show the result. I am really interested. Something may pop up and if it's good then it's good. The only dogma in this trade should be that there are no dogmas.

 

[Allan Black]

Kess, your actors are the key of course.

Keep an eye on their dispositions, one very late night could undermine the start. If the 1st day doesn't start out well and it bogs right down to a crawl, bite the bullet and either scrap it or at least postpone it.

One off improvs like this usually don't improve. Good luck, let's know how it went.

Cheers.

 

[paulears]

The real problems could be when a strong actor drags the others in a direction you, as the Director, don't want - so part of your job is to set the framework for them to improvise within. If you don't like the way it's going, you stop it and change their direction. They will resist, sometimes quite strongly - but only you know if their ideas will work. Improvisation is NOT a cooperative. It's exploration and development within the Directors vision. I suggest you video the workshops because then you have something to type from! You can also then use the video to see what will work, and what won't so the script has solid foundations. People will continually take the plot off in new directions. Only you can decide if these excursions are good or bad. You need real courage and strength to control these. I've worked with some directors who don't allow any actor an input, and others who let them develop the material - this works when the actors have respect for the directors opinion. So if he loves what they are doing he runs with it, but if it starts to drift, he reigns them back in quickly and decisively. Weak Directors end up with weak impro results because it's kind of a mess without any real map to follow.

 

[Lee Stokes]

I like to stay on script...then give them one or two takes to do whatever they want...time and money permitting. It allows for some exploration, but I can't imagine getting decent footage out of a completely improved setting.

www.filmschoolnow.com
Just Shoot It! book - 2nd edition

Just to clarify: What we film will NOT be improvised.
Any improvisation will be during the workshops only. Anything we film will be from the script we write, and there WILL be a script.

Lee

 

[Lee Stokes]

The real problems could be when a strong actor drags the others in a direction you, as the Director, don't want - so part of your job is to set the framework for them to improvise within. If you don't like the way it's going, you stop it and change their direction. They will resist, sometimes quite strongly - but only you know if their ideas will work. Improvisation is NOT a cooperative. It's exploration and development within the Directors vision. I suggest you video the workshops because then you have something to type from! You can also then use the video to see what will work, and what won't so the script has solid foundations. People will continually take the plot off in new directions. Only you can decide if these excursions are good or bad. You need real courage and strength to control these. I've worked with some directors who don't allow any actor an input, and others who let them develop the material - this works when the actors have respect for the directors opinion. So if he loves what they are doing he runs with it, but if it starts to drift, he reigns them back in quickly and decisively. Weak Directors end up with weak impro results because it's kind of a mess without any real map to follow.

Thanks Paul...
Thats the experimental part for me as director: Can I recognize when to let my actors go, or when to have them stop? Can I recognize which paths to explore or when to leave the path we're on? Can I recognize when to be gentle, and when to be firm?
Answering those questions is what is exciting for me. This process sounds good to me, but I also know that it might not be easy and/or productive. (Thats the main reason I have limited the time/resources spent on this project, in case its a bad idea).

Tonight we have our first workshop, which is a sit down just exploring ideas/scenarios/concepts/themes/character. I will be doing an audio recording only tonight since no interaction or blocking will be done. But for the other workshops, I do hope to film most of them for the reasons you mentioned.

Lee

 

[D.Mur]

Like I have tried to say, this is merely an experiment for me and my actors. Maybe it is too much. But we'll not know if we don't try, right? Can't blame someone for trying, can you? The goal isn't to win an Oscar, the goal is to create a short 5 minute movie. I am not going to re-define film making or create careers, I am simply seeing if this way of creating a story is at all viable. I am fortunate enough to have several people buy into this experiment, thats all.

Good point...

 

[rising_son]

I agree.

As an actor, no matter if you are improvising or not, you need structure. A story or situation has to be created in order to move ahead with the exercise.

If the plot and characters come from that, thats fine, but in order to create something, you need a sense of a basic story and situation.