Any Real World Testing of Apple VS PC
- Thread starter Joe_Hicks
- Start date
J.D.
Active member
I teach at a small college were we had several PC editing stations. They were consistently crashing. We tried Adobe Premier & Discreet editing programs. We bought a mac to test out and we have never looked back, we are buying our 4 th mac editing system this summer.
they are easy to use and reliable!
I have a friend who is a pro Avid full time editor, the have 5+ high end Avid systems, they are taking all those out and replacing them with Macs and Final Cut Pro.
they are easy to use and reliable!
I have a friend who is a pro Avid full time editor, the have 5+ high end Avid systems, they are taking all those out and replacing them with Macs and Final Cut Pro.
loyd_christmas
Active member
i have a dual 2gig g5 that has been a headache from day one. apple has ran tests on it and told me there is nothing wrong with it yet it crashes many times a day. im selling it , not sure if i am going to buy another mac , im leaning toward to pc
I have a dual 2GB G5 and a 15" PowerBook and neither one have ever crashed. Not one time. I'm sorry to hear about your problem, it is rare however. You have to have some kind of conflict going on. I have SO many friends with PCs that are virtually unusable because of one problem or another. Mostly virus issues. I guess Macs can even have problems too, but I've never had one...
Mac crashing!!??
Mac crashing!!??
I had problems with my G4 crashing when I first got it. The Apple reseller tested it and said there was nothing wrong too! I kept asking them to check the RAM. They said it wasn't the RAM but then discovered after 2 or 3 trips that the (3rd party) RAM that they had upgraded me to was dodgy.
So it wasn't Apple after all :laugh: ! May be worth a try!
Got to also say, I migrated to Mac about 5 years ago and would NEVER, EVER go back to PCs!!!!!!
IMO Final Cut Pro stands MILES above EVERYTHING else! I have been editing on Avid this week in a Pro edit suite and have hated every second - just thinking about getting home to Final Cut Pro. I hope it destroys Avid.
When I get Final Cut Pro 5, I might stop leaving the house altogether!
..but this is just my humble opinion.
Mac crashing!!??
I had problems with my G4 crashing when I first got it. The Apple reseller tested it and said there was nothing wrong too! I kept asking them to check the RAM. They said it wasn't the RAM but then discovered after 2 or 3 trips that the (3rd party) RAM that they had upgraded me to was dodgy.
So it wasn't Apple after all :laugh: ! May be worth a try!
Got to also say, I migrated to Mac about 5 years ago and would NEVER, EVER go back to PCs!!!!!!
IMO Final Cut Pro stands MILES above EVERYTHING else! I have been editing on Avid this week in a Pro edit suite and have hated every second - just thinking about getting home to Final Cut Pro. I hope it destroys Avid.
When I get Final Cut Pro 5, I might stop leaving the house altogether!
..but this is just my humble opinion.
loyd_christmas
Active member
yeah it is rare to have problems like this on a mac .apples latest response is "reinstall the OS ,dont install any extra programs not even apple products and if it still keeps crashing then we can take the next step" which is send it back to them for more testing. i started laughing, oh well
btw i cycled through the ram ,no bad sticks, and tested it with techtool pro which it passed.
btw i cycled through the ram ,no bad sticks, and tested it with techtool pro which it passed.
thisiswells
Retired
It is difficult to say which editing platform is quicker as systems are constantly being updated and there is no FCP on Windows. Economy comes into play as well--Mac's generally cost more than a PC. In my experience using both and prefering the Mac, Apple has a competitive software suite that is very nice in the Pro App's. I don't know of a more complete and robust set of software that is competing on the PC level in a similar price point. Of course, you need the more expensive hardware to run it. This is an interesting topic. I haven't sat down to figure out the real price difference between comparable Mac and PC systems, performance in similar apps, and ultimately which one is the better deal, all things considered including performance and price. I can tell you I have been on Mac for between two and three years and never had a single virus. I have replaced two laptop harddrives and my computer has locked up plenty of times, but I have managed well and prefer the interface and day to day ease of use the Mac has given me.
Thanks for all these posts.
I have worked on both Macs and PC's over the last 15 years (I was previously a graphic artist). I realize they both have their quarks to a degree, and from time to time a "lemon" will appear (usually due to a conflict or bad 3rd party hardware/software). My last Mac I found the OS freezing daily (in OS9), my last PC (XP) the OS was solid but Premier/Matrox was a freekin' nightmare.
The items that I am concerned with most are: (listed in order of priority)
1. Industry Standards- how widely accepted is the NLE
I'm not so concerned with what your local wedding videographer is using as much as what has the digital film industry embraced?
2. Speed
3. Stabilty
4. 3rd Party plug-in availability
Thanks!
I have worked on both Macs and PC's over the last 15 years (I was previously a graphic artist). I realize they both have their quarks to a degree, and from time to time a "lemon" will appear (usually due to a conflict or bad 3rd party hardware/software). My last Mac I found the OS freezing daily (in OS9), my last PC (XP) the OS was solid but Premier/Matrox was a freekin' nightmare.
The items that I am concerned with most are: (listed in order of priority)
1. Industry Standards- how widely accepted is the NLE
I'm not so concerned with what your local wedding videographer is using as much as what has the digital film industry embraced?
2. Speed
3. Stabilty
4. 3rd Party plug-in availability
Thanks!
thisiswells
Retired
I would say Apple currently offers the simplest way to get into high-end editing. Combined with a Panasonic products, you can do amazing, affordable things on a Mac, like HD-over-firewire (absolutely not supported in Windows, planned for the future) and the incredible Motion graphics software (Mac-Only) and affordable DVD authoring with true Dolby encoding. These things would be much more expensive in the PC realm, especially since you can't do HD-over-firewire. For these reasons I would think most editors in the digital film industry on the non-studio level, at least, would be pro-apple because of the economy and easy strategy to get into the business because of pretty low upfront cost compared to other alternatives.
Speed=they're all fast these days
Stability=they're all about as stable.. But with Apple you only have to make one call to resolve issues since they make both hardware and software... although, it costs 1200$ yearly for support.
3rd Party plug-in availability=expound on this please. If you mean filters/effects, then Apple definitely. There are dozens of one-man shops developing plug-ins for mac pro apps, specifically FCP plug-ins. Although, David Jimmerson here on DVXuser makes plug-ins for Vegas, too.
I would love to hear from others about this as well. Please chip in some kind words.
brian wells
Speed=they're all fast these days
Stability=they're all about as stable.. But with Apple you only have to make one call to resolve issues since they make both hardware and software... although, it costs 1200$ yearly for support.
3rd Party plug-in availability=expound on this please. If you mean filters/effects, then Apple definitely. There are dozens of one-man shops developing plug-ins for mac pro apps, specifically FCP plug-ins. Although, David Jimmerson here on DVXuser makes plug-ins for Vegas, too.
I would love to hear from others about this as well. Please chip in some kind words.
brian wells
Stanrick_Kubley
Active member
Someone recommended this site to me today, and it contains many benchmarks between Apples and Apples and Apples and PC's:
http://www.barefeats.com/
On a personal note, I am a long-time PC user, and I like Windows for everything but video editing - 2D graphics, 3D graphics, gaming, etc., etc. However, after trying to edit 24p in Premiere Pro, I'm finally shopping for a Mac.
Premiere Pro is, in theory, virtually identical to FCP, but in practice it has chronic problems with 24p. I decided to "switch" after having to send a project out the door that wasn't even color-corrected, all because Premiere couldn't output the file and kept crashing. Some of the final shots even had some wacky pull-down stuttering problems that shouldn't have been there. Adobe's response is that nothing is wrong.
It sucks, because Macs are so insanely expensive, and I've spend the last couple weeks listening to Mac users telling me that "they're really not". They REALLY are. But FCP runs well, and I just need an stable editing machine.
http://www.barefeats.com/
On a personal note, I am a long-time PC user, and I like Windows for everything but video editing - 2D graphics, 3D graphics, gaming, etc., etc. However, after trying to edit 24p in Premiere Pro, I'm finally shopping for a Mac.
Premiere Pro is, in theory, virtually identical to FCP, but in practice it has chronic problems with 24p. I decided to "switch" after having to send a project out the door that wasn't even color-corrected, all because Premiere couldn't output the file and kept crashing. Some of the final shots even had some wacky pull-down stuttering problems that shouldn't have been there. Adobe's response is that nothing is wrong.
It sucks, because Macs are so insanely expensive, and I've spend the last couple weeks listening to Mac users telling me that "they're really not". They REALLY are. But FCP runs well, and I just need an stable editing machine.
thisiswells
Retired
I have been successfully editing on an 867Mhz Powerbook with a Superdrive and FCExpress that
cost me $1800 two years ago with a free iPod and an inkjet printer (including student discounts)
So, that is where I come across saying that, "mac's aren't all that expensive" because at the time,
I really needed something I could take home that day and start editing a project that needed to be
delivered on DVD in less than a week. I paid for my computer in one weekend. I haven't gotten an
editing job that earned me that much in that short of time since then, but this is why I don't think
my computer is terribly expensive. I bought it as a tool for a job and now it's paid for.
Hope this makes sense. I was very blessed that week... I really needed a computer for college.
brian wells
cost me $1800 two years ago with a free iPod and an inkjet printer (including student discounts)
So, that is where I come across saying that, "mac's aren't all that expensive" because at the time,
I really needed something I could take home that day and start editing a project that needed to be
delivered on DVD in less than a week. I paid for my computer in one weekend. I haven't gotten an
editing job that earned me that much in that short of time since then, but this is why I don't think
my computer is terribly expensive. I bought it as a tool for a job and now it's paid for.
Hope this makes sense. I was very blessed that week... I really needed a computer for college.
brian wells
Stanrick_Kubley
Active member
I wasn't responding at you, wells. No hate here. Nuttin' but love.
thisiswells said:
I don't want to get into Mac/PC and I have nothing against Macs, but some of that just isn't true.
HDV is fully-supported in Vegas 6 (including capture). Vegas (since Version 4) also does full Dolby Digital 5.1 surround encoding (does FCP 5 do that? FCP 4 didn't. I haven't checked. Again, not to bash, just asking), and DVD Architect has had true Dolby encoding for years. Both cost much less than comparable Mac apps. (ACID does Dolby 5.1, too.)
I do not know if Vegas will support DVCPRO-HD; I hope they will and it will be stupid for them not to (which is why I think they will; only Sony's arrogance would keep it from happening). So in that area, FCP has an advantage.
But in all honesty, app vs. app vs. app, if you're working in 24p, I honestly can't imagine working in anything but Vegas. Because there, the workflow runs circles around any other app, Mac or PC, bar none. It simply has THE BEST 24p integration.
thisiswells
Retired
dolby encoding is a function of the compressor app and integrated into dvd studio pro
windows as an OS does not support any type of high bit rate HD-over-firewire which for the time being creates an issue if you wanted to take your HVX200 footage out to a deck... you'd have to buy an interface and go HD-SDI and not firewire... what Sony Vegas does is their business, but right now the OS won't support it (you know the drill, write your congressman)
Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Motion, Soundtrack as a package cost 1299 retail, I don't know how this compares to Vegas, DVD Architect, "high-end-motion-graphics-equivalent" and "high-end-not-smart-tracks-audio-suite" I just don't know..
Of course, FCP has supported HD and DVCPRO-HD and software frame rate conversion for over a year, so to answer the gentleman's question of what is the industry standard for non-wedding videographers, and specifically the digital independant filmmakers, I think that FCP would be because of the format independance and apaptability to DV50 and DV100HD. Thanks all I was saying.. FWIW, I'm really interested in checking out a really decked out Windows/Vegas system sometime soon to see how things have changed. Thanks, David.
brian wells
windows as an OS does not support any type of high bit rate HD-over-firewire which for the time being creates an issue if you wanted to take your HVX200 footage out to a deck... you'd have to buy an interface and go HD-SDI and not firewire... what Sony Vegas does is their business, but right now the OS won't support it (you know the drill, write your congressman)
Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Motion, Soundtrack as a package cost 1299 retail, I don't know how this compares to Vegas, DVD Architect, "high-end-motion-graphics-equivalent" and "high-end-not-smart-tracks-audio-suite" I just don't know..
Of course, FCP has supported HD and DVCPRO-HD and software frame rate conversion for over a year, so to answer the gentleman's question of what is the industry standard for non-wedding videographers, and specifically the digital independant filmmakers, I think that FCP would be because of the format independance and apaptability to DV50 and DV100HD. Thanks all I was saying.. FWIW, I'm really interested in checking out a really decked out Windows/Vegas system sometime soon to see how things have changed. Thanks, David.
brian wells
thisiswells said:
That's fine, but that's not what I was getting at. With Vegas (since Version 4), you can do a 5.1 surround-sound mix right on the timeline, and Vegas will encode it as a DVD-ready Dolby Digital AC-3 file. (ACID will do the same.) I don't think Final Cut does this; you have to go to another app for that. (Unless that changed with FCP 5.)
If you don't use Vegas, DVD Architect will also create the Dolby files needed for DVD.
Well, you said HD; HDV is HD. Not what I'm after personally, but HD, indeed.
My understanding is that you will be able to stream 1080p over USB. But there's a lot of time between now and when the HVX200 is available, so there's plenty of time for surprises.
Well, Vegas is its own high-end audio editing suite, and a full-service looping program to boot (100% compatible with ACID loops, for example). Vegas can do on its own pretty much everything Soundtrack does (though I'm sure you can come up with examples of things it can't). Vegas+DVD generally retails around $500.
Apple Motion is a fine low-cost effects program, but every review I've read says it doesn't quite compare with After Effects. (It's NEW; it probably will in time.) While Vegas can already do a stunning amount of effects within itself, the addition of, say, After Effects Standard would add another $400 or so. You're talking $900 total.
I certainly would agree that FCP has more high-end industry cache'. And if that's THE top priority (as he said it was), then FCP wins out over Vegas for his purposes.
I'm not trying to argue; just to clarify (particularly about the "much more expensive in the PC realm" part). Let's all get along! :beer:
kai
After FX Guru
Jubal28 said:
From what i've gathered about soundtrack pro, it's developed into a much more verstile pro-level program vs the original "soundtrack", which was really just a glorofied garageband. Soundtrack Pro is now retailing by itself at $299. Not too shabby.
Here are some specs and a video promo:
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/soundtrackpro/specs.html
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/soundtrackpro/customertestimonial.html
thisiswells
Retired
I totally appreciate clarification. I honestly haven't looked into computers for awhile.. My brother was totally shocked when I didn't even visit apple at NAB2005. It was kind of like, eh, they're probably doing a bunch of hd stuff over firewire and demonstrating a bunch of motion graphics stuff that doesn't really interest me. Sure enough when I walked past them, that's exactly what they were doing... meh..
I kind of reached saturation with computers and editing last fall and really lost interest in keeping up. So, I do thank you for clarifying. I really can't think of anything Soundtrack has over any other software since I don't really use any of them. Occasionally I'll nag my brother to help me do some dialogue tweaking on his Samplitude system, but I don't think that's the same thing as Soundtrack. Sorry to appear incredibly un-informed here.. I really have nothing to do much with music or soundtracks, etc. I often do location mixing with lavs and booms, but never anything on the post production audio side of things. I'm totally clueless.
FWIW, I have done more editing on a WindowsXp/Matrox/Premeire Pro system last year than on Mac while working at a company and it always worked perfectly. The .M2V encoding was wayy faster than a dualG5 and the Chroma Keying was fantastic. I'm sure SonyVegas is much better than Premeire from the wonderful things I've heard about it. I can say that company switched to several Mac systems and no longer uses the PremierePro, but I was always very pleased with it... in many ways more so than the Mac... The guys who work there now are the artsy-tartsy type who wouldn't know a fork from a hammer and only work on chic' computers for graphic design ala dualG5's. haha.
I agree a lot can change in a year. I hope SeriousMagic and SonyVegas can implement HVX200. I really do, we need them to keep this boat afloat. Thanks again for perspective, David.
brian wells
I kind of reached saturation with computers and editing last fall and really lost interest in keeping up. So, I do thank you for clarifying. I really can't think of anything Soundtrack has over any other software since I don't really use any of them. Occasionally I'll nag my brother to help me do some dialogue tweaking on his Samplitude system, but I don't think that's the same thing as Soundtrack. Sorry to appear incredibly un-informed here.. I really have nothing to do much with music or soundtracks, etc. I often do location mixing with lavs and booms, but never anything on the post production audio side of things. I'm totally clueless.
FWIW, I have done more editing on a WindowsXp/Matrox/Premeire Pro system last year than on Mac while working at a company and it always worked perfectly. The .M2V encoding was wayy faster than a dualG5 and the Chroma Keying was fantastic. I'm sure SonyVegas is much better than Premeire from the wonderful things I've heard about it. I can say that company switched to several Mac systems and no longer uses the PremierePro, but I was always very pleased with it... in many ways more so than the Mac... The guys who work there now are the artsy-tartsy type who wouldn't know a fork from a hammer and only work on chic' computers for graphic design ala dualG5's. haha.
I agree a lot can change in a year. I hope SeriousMagic and SonyVegas can implement HVX200. I really do, we need them to keep this boat afloat. Thanks again for perspective, David.
brian wells
thisiswells
Retired
"high bit rate HD" means 100Mbps DVCPRO-HD or HDCAM at 140Mbps, prb. should have made that clear.
"low bite rate HD" would be D-VHS at 28Mbps or HDV at 19Mbps
"low bite rate HD" would be D-VHS at 28Mbps or HDV at 19Mbps