Another year, another NAB/IBC/Photokina, I'm depressed again

C

combatentropy

Veteran
Y'all are going to laugh, but I'm serious.

I have been waiting year after year after year for a camera, and each year after NAB and IBC I come away disappointed, mainly because of the lack of global shutter.

Now hold on!

I know that there are many out there with worse problems than this.
I know that I can go out there and make money or a good movie with the gear that's here.
I know that this deserves to be tagged First World Problems or whatever.

But I'm honestly depressed, I think because it's so possible, and has been so possible, for years.

Around six years ago, I drew up a camera that I wanted. Since then, my wish list has diminished not risen! Gone down, not up! Now, all I want is:

- 60 fps, not 240. Twixtor can take care of the rest for me.
- 2 XLRs, not 4. Yeah, 4 was a little ridiculous. How can I even ride so many levels while shooting?
- just an interchangeable lens mount, not some super-swank integrated power zoom lens
- and I probably don't need that much ISO

But I still want global shutter. And there are so few that have that. I would take almost any of the DSLRs and just rig them up I guess if they only had global shutter. The cameras that have global shutter are just too big once you fully rig them up. I want it the size of an XA10 with lens attached, no more.

XA-10-04-480.jpg



Please, manufacturers! Please! Stop putting off global shutter!
 
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Gillvane said:
Why do you need global shutter?
Click to expand...

Why would you NOT want global shutter? I'll give up the extra sensitivity that you lose with a global shutter vs. rolling shutter. Most of the 'more professional" cams with CMOS sensors have overcome/minimized skew, but flash banding is still there. I, personally, despise flash banding and every time I see it I think TMZ stalker/paparazzi video. Your standards may be different, but I think it's unacceptable, even though I still have to deal with it on my C300 if I'm shooting around flashes.
 
He has every right to lament after he wants and doesn't get. I remember seeing a show in 1972 that said we'd all have flying cars by the end of the 80's. I'm still waiting as well, but alas NADA.
 
That's been the number one issue for me... Makes the Dbolex the camera that wins in my book for my needs these days. I like the small chip. I really do.

Combatentropy I feel you on the global shutter. It's my number one wish as well. It's not even the skew as much as it is the tiny nervous jitters that screw everything up. They really really remind you incessantly that a camera's there.

I remember once I wanted a 10 bit 720p camera that went up to 75fps but had a ccd.

I totally feel you man. It's why I dug the ikonoskop back in the day. I still think that thing was sooooo ahead of its time. I miss goran olson

T
 
I kept a 3CCD past it's prime in the event I had to shoot an event with flash photography going on. But I always seem to turn down that type work, so I sold the camera on eBay two weeks ago.

If you really need a "global shutter" in your day to day shooting, I would not hesitate to purchase one of the camera options available now to fulfill your business needs, rather than loose work.
 
Run&Gun said:
Why would you NOT want global shutter? I'll give up the extra sensitivity that you lose with a global shutter vs. rolling shutter. Most of the 'more professional" cams with CMOS sensors have overcome/minimized skew, but flash banding is still there. I, personally, despise flash banding and every time I see it I think TMZ stalker/paparazzi video. Your standards may be different, but I think it's unacceptable, even though I still have to deal with it on my C300 if I'm shooting around flashes.
Click to expand...

Ok, that makes sense. I don't shoot anything with any flashes so that's not an issue for me. I'd like the global shutter to reduce skew, but it's not absolutely necessary. But what are you shooting with flashes if it's not stalker/paparazzi video?
 
global shutter CMOS doesn't seem terribly far away, i think the use of the cmosis chip in BMC and CION will be a good indicator to other manufacturers that global shutter is valued by many to be just as important as an extra stop of DR or stop of clean high ISO. We're still waiting to here if canon has anything to announce. Considering that their C line already has phenomenal low light and a very usable 12 stops of DR, global shutter just might be one of the ways they can separate their new offering from the current batch. who knows.

BTW, on just the sensor size front: I'm still waiting for sony/panny/etc... to dump out an m43 mount camera with that 1" sensor size in there. Love my RX10, very likely will get an X70... that sensor/size is just great and here's hoping it gets even more milleage
 
craigbowman said:
He has every right to lament after he wants and doesn't get. I remember seeing a show in 1972 that said we'd all have flying cars by the end of the 80's. I'm still waiting as well, but alas NADA.
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for the starship that was supposed to be built by 1990, according to the 1970 lyrics, that Jefferson Airplane was going to highjack...
 
Global shutter seems to give the camera a big hit on sensitivity. Unless you're lighting, it may be a feature that proves costly. I'm really curious about the difference in motion artifacts and skew more than event light shows and flashes from cameras. However if RED can do without it, I wonder about the apparent benefit.

I did red carpet coverage for an NFL Draft event and it was ridiculous!
 
combatentropy said:
Y
- 60 fps, not 240. Twixtor can take care of the rest for me.
- 2 XLRs, not 4. Yeah, 4 was a little ridiculous. How can I even ride so many levels while shooting?
- just an interchangeable lens mount, not some super-swank integrated power zoom lens
- and I probably don't need that much ISO
Click to expand...

I would say, you are in the market for an Ursa.

Exceeds your size wishes a bit, but hey, you can't have it all, unless you pay someone, building a custom camera with your specs.
That would be pretty expensive, which brings us back to - "you can't have it all".
 
Postmaster said:
I would say, you are in the market for an Ursa.

Exceeds your size wishes a bit, but hey, you can't have it all, unless you pay someone, building a custom camera with your specs.
That would be pretty expensive, which brings us back to - "you can't have it all".
Click to expand...

a bit?! an ursa tops his mockup preference by 10+lbs...
 
combatentropy said:
Y'all are going to laugh, but I'm serious.

I have been waiting year after year after year for a camera, and each year after NAB and IBC I come away disappointed, mainly because of the lack of global shutter.

Now hold on!

I know that there are many out there with worse problems than this.
I know that I can go out there and make money or a good movie with the gear that's here.
I know that this deserves to be tagged First World Problems or whatever.

But I'm honestly depressed, I think because it's so possible, and has been so possible, for years.

Around six years ago, I drew up a camera that I wanted. Since then, my wish list has diminished not risen! Gone down, not up! Now, all I want is:

- 60 fps, not 240. Twixtor can take care of the rest for me.
- 2 XLRs, not 4. Yeah, 4 was a little ridiculous. How can I even ride so many levels while shooting?
- just an interchangeable lens mount, not some super-swank integrated power zoom lens
- and I probably don't need that much ISO

But I still want global shutter. And there are so few that have that. I would take almost any of the DSLRs and just rig them up I guess if they only had global shutter. The cameras that have global shutter are just too big once you fully rig them up. I want it the size of an XA10 with lens attached, no more.

View attachment 91385



Please, manufacturers! Please! Stop putting off global shutter!
Click to expand...

+1
I want the same camera …except mine uses Kodak film ...
 
Gillvane said:
Ok, that makes sense. I don't shoot anything with any flashes so that's not an issue for me. I'd like the global shutter to reduce skew, but it's not absolutely necessary. But what are you shooting with flashes if it's not stalker/paparazzi video?
Click to expand...

The vast majority of my work is for a certain network known for sports. I'm constantly around still photogs(in addition to flashing lights and fast movement). Like so many, I've shot(and continue to shoot) on 3 chip CCD cams my entire career and skew and flash banding has never been an issue or thought. Now with CMOS chip cams , especially large sensor 'cinema' cams that we are using for a lot of our work now, we have "new" issues that we haven't had in the past. It's kind of the 'ole "two steps forward, two steps back". We now have large sensors that give us shallow dof when we want it and they are very sensitive/clean for low light shooting, but you end up with skew and flash banding unless it has a global shutter. Personally, I think any camera designed to be used at the professional/network/broadcast level or higher, should not suffer from these deficiencies. In fact, it's one of the biggest disappointments to me of the new VariCam's.
 
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