Another "which camera?" thread

I'm not usually the type to say, wait for a camera... but in this case you might want to.

I'm not you, but, If I were, I'd probably try to rent my gear and put the remainder of the money into the actual production (production design, good sound, locations, etc) and get a better film.

If you have budget for the film AND 9k for camera, then perhaps waiting for something like the AF100 or a similar larger sensor camera that is not the Canon series, might be better.

BUT again, if you want to make a great film, renting will get you a higher quality product in the short run. You'll be able to rent a higher quality camera with better lenses and etc. If you plan on making many many more films in a very short timeframe than buying is wise. If there is going to be a couple of months to a year between projects, renting is the way to go, because cameras are very quickly out dated and etc.
 
Renting SAVES you money. You only save money by owning if you have plenty of projects lined up (a music video for local band is not enough to justify splurging $9k on gear). Without being aware you ARE making a typical noob mistake by not listening to pros like Ryan.
 
I agree with both of you. I think it all depends on your skill level , if you are familiar with a lot of cameras then the way to go is renting. It saves you money and leaves more for the production. If you need more time to learn with a camera then I would buy one , but maybe a used better camera or a not so expensive camera that won't keep you in the stone age. Camera work is tricky and you don't want to waist all your rental time trying to learn the camera.

If you do decide to rent just make sure your talent is concrete , nothing worse then spending money and then hearing excuses.
 
-7D sounds like a dream come true, but I'm concerned about the problems of this camera. Audio is no big deal for me, but what about the other aspects? I've heard about aliasing, jello and some have also argued that it's too soft and really isn't on par with other 1920x1080 24p cameras. Being the cheapest of the these, I would be able to build an extensive kit around this little guy so that would be great. My first film will most likely be shot almost entirely with slow, kind of "lurking" camera movements, but I'm concerned about shooting, for example, action film on this camera. Would this be a great choice for all-around filmmaking or only suitable for tripod shots with careful movements?
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If audio isn't an issue for you, go for it! I'm in the middle of filming a Bourne-esque action flick with the T2i and jello hasn't been an issue. I'm using a homemade shoulder rig for almost everything and it all looks great.
 
..if you don't want to wait..than rent EX1 or EX3 and SGpro/SGblade or Letus Ultimate..

or just find somebody with EX1 / EX3 who is willing to participate in your project.. that way you get cameraman / camcorder at lower price..

It should be much cheaper than renting RED..
 
Giriki said:
So, I've finally decided to take the matters into my own hand and make at least one feature film. I can spend 9000$ on the camera equipment (rig, LCD, mic etc) and I already have a lighting kit.
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I didn't read the rest in detail (no need), because...you should rent a RED camera and cinema glass. If you can do your shoot in four weeks, you could easily afford to rent a set of Cooke S4 lenses and get a result that frankly will astound you. Highly recommended.
 
Giriki said:
There won't be a gap of a year or a half between finishing film number 1 and beginning to shoot film number 2.
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Since, as you say, this is "film number 1" for you, I can confidently tell you that there will be a gap between your films if you are the director. Trust me, you should rent. Get good glass (first) and then a camera to go with it. If you're really serious, I'm certain you can afford a RED and top-tier glass for $9K.
 
Hmmm, interesting. So, are you knowingly avoiding anything? Whip pans et cetera? I have peeked at your thread in the past, but I'm certainly going to give it a look. Any disadvantages you can think of besides audio?
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During extreme whip pans, there is a little bit of skew, but it's not that noticeable. I realized that if the pivot of the pan is behind the sensor, it looks a lot better, as opposed to panning on a tripod where the pivot is located at the sensor. With my shoulderpod, the sensor is about a foot from the pivot, so I shoot without any concerns.
 
El Director, what's your opinion on the quality of the footage? How would you rate it compared to EX-cams etc? Do you think it would hold up well when projected digitally on the big screen?

Currently scrolling through your blog, interesting stuff.
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I can't say how it compares to the EX1, as I've never shot with that camera. As far as it holding up on the screen, I have no doubt that it'll look amazing. My last feature was shot with a little Canon ZR800 (standard def) and it looked great projected on a movie screen. The DLSR can only look better. I'm shooting with Philip Bloom's settings and I've been extremely happy with it so far.
 
Giriki said:
Look, no offense, but I want to own the camera+some other equipment.
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Since I don't have $9K to toss around... had I such a sum, and like you wanted to have the camera available to me at all times so that I could sleep with it if necessary to get good at it... these days either the Wife would toss it out of bed, or the dog would chew it up... but I digress...

Anyway, I'd get a lower priced, but 'fully functional' camera... since the introduction of the Canons, 5D or 7D, or in my case, the GH-1, I think there is enough capability for you to learn quite a bit about 'film making' and in particular 'cinematography', and any one of these cameras allow you to buy other things that you'd probably need to learn to work with, such as a basic light kit. (Because of my 'still life'... I tend to be far more comfortable with the DSLR type camera, than the 'video' camera...)

Sure you can rent all these things. But my personal belief is, if you have some set of basic items with you at all times, there should be no excuse, other than Wife or Day Job... to prevent you from testing, setting up, and learning.

If on the other hand, you are just interested in being a 'director' with no other involvement in the film process... perhaps learning to hire 'pro' or 'pro what to be' types would be time better spent...
 
Giriki said:
I would only have one film that probably would look like crap because my inexperience.
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Now we're getting somewhere. :-)

Directing (and filmmaking in general, at least the production phase) is a performance art. People forget that. You show up a particular day, and you have to get the shot that day. Oftentimes, *especially* on low-budget films, you only get one take.

So, you're performing. You might get a couple of tries, but filmmaking isn't like writing, painting, or sculpting. It's like dancing. You practice. And practice. And then some more. And when the day comes, you're able to do your job.

And like dancing, if you stop practicing you get rusty.

IMO Every director should own a camera, and should shoot -- rain or shine -- 3 days a week for at least half a day each, just to keep their skills up. If you don't have something to shoot, shoot an existing scene from a film you admire. If you absolutely can't shoot, write a scene.

You have to do the work, put in the time, etc. I don't think making a feature is a particularly good way to do that, but shooting individual scenes has merit.

For that, I'd recommend a hacked GH1, a Hot Rod PL mount, some older cine glass and an el cheapo follow focus. That's a great way to learn how to perform as a director using gear that is -- more or less -- what it's going to be like when you shoot something for real. And when you do, you won't be inexperienced and you'll get a result you're happy with. Good luck!
 
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I'm all for doing it yourself. It'll either go two ways, either you'll learn a lot and be able to better communicate with a DP if you ever use one, or you end up going my route and continue to do it all because you like it and you learn a lot and end up getting better each time. Don't listen to anyone who tells you to do things a certain way. Do what you want and what works best for you.
 
I think you'll find also that you'll work a lot faster doing it yourself. I've seen some larger budget productions and it's ridiculous how long it takes to get things done. I'll be sure to follow your project.

As far as my footage, I'll cut a video only teaser when we're done filming. That'll have some of the better stuff like parkour, fights, and maybe an explosion if it's done by then.
 
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I recently bought an EX1R and i am over the moon with being able to own a camera and use it whenever i like....
But the main reason we got the camera was because we were having to turn down 'Bread and butter' corporate jobs because the client couldn't afford an operator and the cost of camera rental etc. So it made sense for us to have this at our disposal.

BUT...If i had a pot of cash for a single project that i was really passionate about, then i would rent the best that you can afford with that cash!
Yes you don't have any equipment to show at the end of it but you have a better result which could quite possibly result in bigger and better things in the future....

Renting may not be ideal for your location/situation but its the best way to make the most of your money in the short term...


Cheers

Tom
 
Giriki said:
I've come to the conclusion that DSLR cams don't really do what I want from my camera...
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Could you explain why? Not that I want to change your mind, but it would be good to know what you want from a camera that you feel you can't get from a DSLR. Yes I know they have their limitations and I don't want people to get in a long debate about that...but knowing why you don't want one will help in advising what purchase decision to make.

I started doing the whole writer, director, dp, editor, etc. and produced crap. Now I'm sure some people can do it, but I couldn't. I discovered I enjoyed lighting, lensing, etc. more than directing or editing. So I surrounded myself with people who were good writers and directors and editors and my work dramatically improved.

My question for you is what do you feel your strong point is?

I have a friend who is a great director and editor and owns a 7D for when he feels like just going out and shooting. But if he has a project, he'll usually hire me because I own the camera, gear, lights, etc. to do a good shoot.

If you want to be a director, maybe you should befriend someone with some good gear and pool your resources together. If you enjoy lighting and camera work, then it might be good to invest in better gear for you to use in future shoots.
 
Giriki said:
... or should I just try to raise more cash and maybe even buy used RED?
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If you can raise cash... why not rent a super good quality camera and lens set, some lights etc.... make a good film and use that film to raise more money.

I'd think if you could show someone some great looking content, they'd be more prone to invest more money. Probably more successful doing that, than say, asking for more money now, when you have nothing but ambition to show for it.
 
As for demos and poc's, the best thing about them is that it allows you to start experimenting with ideas and such. You can see what kind of things work, what doesn't, plus, when it's done, you now have something to help keep YOU motivated when you get burned out.

Go with whatever camera you feel is best for you. I was very skeptical about DLSRs, so I made three trips to camera stores and Best Buy to play with them before I was completely sold. I realized that a lot of the things people complained about just weren't an issue.
 
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