Kenneth Lau
Active member
I always wonder, when you do a overhead shot with a crane, wide shot and exterior, will you ever get the shadow of the crane in the shot? If you do, what are the ways to fix it?/
Another stupid question
- Thread starter Kenneth Lau
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Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
Time of day. When the sun is lower in the sky it works much better than when your crane/camera is between the sun and subject. :/
jghenderson
Well-known member
Yeah, as Patrick said, it's about time of day. The sun is such a powerful source that if there's no clouds, you're pretty much not going to be able to fill in shadows.
starcentral
Veteran
Hi Kenneth,
If you're shooting against the sun and it is at low angle then the shadow can be positioned behind you. Since your shooting against the sun you can use as many large reflectors to fill in your subjects as you need, or if you have the power you can use HMI's. Also depending where you live geographically and the time of year, the sun will not always be directly overhead even at noon! So I suggest you plan out the times of day and direction in advance of the shoot and you'll be fine.
If for any uncontrollable reason you end up with some shadows in your shot, you can have them digitally removed if you have no other option. Generally if the shot is moving it is far more work to remove but it will depend on the texture and objects that your crane shadow appeared over.
Best thing is to visit the location in advance and scout it out. Bring your compass, try to visit at different times of day and make lots of notes. When I shoot outdoors I always visit it in advance with my tools and more importantly pen and paper to take notes.
If you're shooting against the sun and it is at low angle then the shadow can be positioned behind you. Since your shooting against the sun you can use as many large reflectors to fill in your subjects as you need, or if you have the power you can use HMI's. Also depending where you live geographically and the time of year, the sun will not always be directly overhead even at noon! So I suggest you plan out the times of day and direction in advance of the shoot and you'll be fine.
If for any uncontrollable reason you end up with some shadows in your shot, you can have them digitally removed if you have no other option. Generally if the shot is moving it is far more work to remove but it will depend on the texture and objects that your crane shadow appeared over.
Best thing is to visit the location in advance and scout it out. Bring your compass, try to visit at different times of day and make lots of notes. When I shoot outdoors I always visit it in advance with my tools and more importantly pen and paper to take notes.
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Shooter
Veteran
Your advice about planning and doing a recce is right on ...but using reflectors or what ever to fill a shadow cast over a subject (scene) from something like a crane (or boom mic) simply does not work or hide the issue. That will fill the subject as much as the "issue"!
As for digitally removing a cast shadow....what do you restore the shadow with?
The simplest advice is dont put anything between the light source and the subject if it will throw a shadow where you dont want to see a shadow.
As for digitally removing a cast shadow....what do you restore the shadow with?
The simplest advice is dont put anything between the light source and the subject if it will throw a shadow where you dont want to see a shadow.
Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
It's not filling in shadows, but simply avoiding them. That is classical avoidance, if you ask me.
You will never be able to 'fill in' a shadow of a jib arm in your shot. One of the most frustrating things a beginner can do, is try to eliminate a shadow by putting light into it. It will never go away and makes things worse, almost always.
Figure out how light moves (the sun) and that will help!
You will never be able to 'fill in' a shadow of a jib arm in your shot. One of the most frustrating things a beginner can do, is try to eliminate a shadow by putting light into it. It will never go away and makes things worse, almost always.
Figure out how light moves (the sun) and that will help!
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starcentral
Veteran
Jesus guys, I was surely not suggesting filling the crane shadow out of the shot?! By shooting against the sun your crane shadow will definitely be behind you. I was just letting him know what to do when shooting against the sun.
Is my english seriously that bad?
If the shadow is over sand, asphalt or other fine texture it is easily done with animated clone/stamp tool. If it is over large objects or people, forget about it.
Is my english seriously that bad?
If the shadow is over sand, asphalt or other fine texture it is easily done with animated clone/stamp tool. If it is over large objects or people, forget about it.
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Photoshop can do amazing things to fill in missing data. Someone posted a tutorial on removing a boom mic with Photoshop. It didn't sound practical to me. But the tutorial was quite amazing. Photoshop did a remarkable intelligent fill of the area. It looked perfect.
starcentral
Veteran
Photoshop can work, but for video After Effects is much better. You can actually do motion tracking and combine it with the clone/stamp tool so as the object you want to cover in the frame moves around it is constantly being copied over from a relative and nearby source. You can make adjustments to the feathering, opacity and other parameters making it easy to blend in with your original plate.
For advanced AE users you can map the clone/stamp X and Y source parameter coordinates to a slider control which is relative to the destination coordinates which will allow you to keyframe the position incase subtle adjustments are needed.
I once used this technique to remove a blemish on an actress that was extremely apparent in all medium and close up shots. It took 2-3 minutes to do for each clip which lasted several seconds in length.
For advanced AE users you can map the clone/stamp X and Y source parameter coordinates to a slider control which is relative to the destination coordinates which will allow you to keyframe the position incase subtle adjustments are needed.
I once used this technique to remove a blemish on an actress that was extremely apparent in all medium and close up shots. It took 2-3 minutes to do for each clip which lasted several seconds in length.
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GrahamH
Well-known member
Not at all. You said the shadow of the crane would fall behind the camera, and fill lights might be needed on the subjects. Seemed clear enough ...
starcentral
Veteran
dankeshane.
What i liked about the Photoshop tutorial is that it does not use clone or feathering. It intelligently looks at the scene and replaces it with the proper fill with no input from the operator other than to identify the area to be replaced. It the tutorial, the area to be filled had a heating duct and a window with a frame. It automatically connected the ductwork back together and knew how to fill in the window and window frame, with no instruction from the operator. Brilliant.
What they did is take one frame grab from the scene and reworked in Photoshop. Then took that frame back to After Effects. They used the frame as a layer in AE. Then added tracking and a mask in AE. It took two minutes in Photoshop to make a perfect fill. Then track and mask in AE.
What they did is take one frame grab from the scene and reworked in Photoshop. Then took that frame back to After Effects. They used the frame as a layer in AE. Then added tracking and a mask in AE. It took two minutes in Photoshop to make a perfect fill. Then track and mask in AE.
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Kenneth Lau
Active member
Thanks so much for the advices everybody. I will keep it in mind when I do location scouting~