Another Newbie Starter Kit

bartoy

bartoy

Active member
This is my first post, so be gentle. I have done my homework and read the fantastic posts by Matt and Jeremy. I now know more about audio than I thought that I ever could. And, I am a bit daunted because there seems to be so much more to know.

So, here is the deal. My wife and I are jumping in feet first to start our documentary production company. We are doing some travel shows for broadcast. We also have a couple of documentaries in the works. We are going to be shooting on the DVX100B.

Now, from my gleaning and research, I think that I have a good starter kit for audio that I want to purchase and would like the nod or input from you all. The only things that I think that are missing are a mixer and recorder. But, it seems like we can "grow" into those tools.

So, here it goes:

Indoor:

+Oktava MK012 with hyper cap
+Rycote BBG
+Rycote Jammer

Outdoor:

+Audio Technica AT4073a
+Rycote Softie

Wireless/Lav:

+Sennheiser G2
+Countryman B3
+MicroCat

Additional:

+K-Tek KSSM with soft bands
+K-Tek Avalon KE-110CC
+Boomstand or C-Stand
+Sony 7506 Headphones
+Shure A15HP High Pass Filter
+Cables from Matt

Sorry to post yet another list. But, I really did my homework and synthesized this sucker. I would just like some input on it. This forum is completely amazing and the threads have just blown me away. Lots of thanks to Matt and Jeremy. They are reaching guru status even if their humility won't allow them to admit it.

In terms of future equip, I was thinking about the Shure FP24 or SD302 mixer and I had no idea on external recorders.

But, this seemed like a pretty good base system to get it moving.

Thanks all,

Kevin.

"I pity the fool who shoots me with an AK47" :kali: :costumed-smiley-047
 
Kevin,

That's a really good starting point. Just a few comments.

1. On your 4073a, you may want to look at the new K-tek blimp. It is getting good reviews - I have not used it yet.

2. Some other logistical types of things are missing from your list. Primarily cases to carry stuff in. Vanguard makes some good basic transpo cases (not solid enough for checking as luggage or shipping, but about 1/3 the price of Pelican cases).

3. Get a good small duffle bag for cables, and get at least 100' in various lengths (I usually travel with about 300' of cable in various configurations - you never know what you're going to need.)

Other than that, I would recommend you get a copy of Jay Rose's books (http://www.dplay.com) - they are invaluable references for production and post production sound.

Good luck and keep us posted. And thank you for clearly having read the archives. ;-)

Phil
 
nice starter kit!certainly looks like you've done your research.

any particular reason why your going for a countryman b3 and not a b6? I only say this because the b6's are great for drama since they are so digisable. but if going for a bigger capsuled lav, have you considered the sanken cos 11? they sound better.
 
That is a nice kit and I agree with what everyone else has said, but the one truth if you're investing in wireless is the moment you pull one out of your bag it is almost always followed by a second one. That is a nice kit though.

-Jeremy
 
Yeah this is pretty much the exact kit that I have and decided to go with from reading all the articles. I definitely agree with Yankee about the second wireless because I have one and really want another one
 
Good point on the wireless. I personally wouldn't want to be without a mixer, but that's just me. Would you want your camera man looking over the sound guy's shoulder to check the levels and change the gain?
 
Nice kit and complete aggree with the above statements. Will reiterate 3:
get the zeppelin (softies not nearly as good)
you will need 2 wireless if you need one (solo conversations don't happen often)
a mixer is pretty critical, get one (skip the wireless to save cash if you have to)

Lastly, if you are getting the B3 because you are doing documentaries and are not hiding the lavs then you might want to look at the Countryman EMW. Even cheaper then the B3 and similar sound but comes with better mounting options (can use sonotrim/tram mounting extras with it). If you have the cash then the Sanken cos-11 would be my first choice for a non-hidden lav (think you can get one for around $400 with power supply).

Really good call on the Microcat :thumbsup: (shows you have been paying attention)

Excellent starter kit, good luck!
 
Thanks alot to everyone. And, really, thanks to this forum. It is such an amazing resource and such a great group of people. It reminds me that the world is full of good people who love what they do and want to help others as much as possible.

So, big thanks to everyone!

As for the wireless, I was actually wondering if an additional mic would mean an additional wireless pack. So, that would mean essentially doubling the wireless budget? I figure the answer is yes.

As for the B6, it is strange that you brought it up. Admitting that I have caught "sound dork fever," I actually woke up last night thinking about the advantages of being able to pull the B6 through a buttonhole and not even notice it. So, I have been thinking that the upgrade to the B6 might be worth it to save issues with sound that might result from trying to hide the lav.

As for the mixer, this is a tough one for me. I really have read up on the forum and this seems a necessity. But, at the moment, my wife and I will be handling all the equip for the shoots. So, it is going to be super low budget. That said, do you all think that a mixer is worth it without the external recorder? And, also, any advice on a low end, easy to use mixer (Shure FP24 or SD302?) and any possibility on finding one of these used?

Thanks again to everyone! This is an awesome resource.

Kevin.
 
Hi Kevin,

Let me run this through from my perspective (which is only opinion):

Others have suggested the K-zep, but personally I'd stay with softy if I were you. For day to day work, I almost never use a zeppelin, and if I know I'll need one for a shoot, they can be rented very cheaply. So that could save you $200ish.

On lavs, I wouldnt get a B3. If you want to work with visible external lavs, I would first look to the EMW, and then (if cash is less of an issue) to the COS11. If you are very keen on the hidden lav vibe with low hassle, then the B6 is the way to go. The EMW is actually quite a good all rounder though, if you cant afford B6 or COS11.

On the wireless front, the G2 is a great choice. But, like others have said, one wireless system is more of a limitation than a blessing. So, in answer to your above question, yes your wireless budget just doubled from $500 to $1000ish.

On the mixer front, do yourself a favour and forget about the FP24. Its a good mixer, but I PROMISE you that after using it for a while, you'll which you had the extra channel, better metering and output limiters of the 302. Both of these mixers have excellent resale value (usually about 80% of purchase), so second hand can be tough to find. But conversely, they are quality machines so second hand is usually not very risky either.

My personal opinion would be this:
Get the oktava with accessories.
Get the AT4073a with accessories (softy not zep)
Get the SD302 (with accesories - good bag is quite important unless you want to mount under the camera somehow.

Then, do your very best to make that gear work for you for a while. When its earned some money back, buy yourself 2 G2 kits. And when THEY have earned some money back, upgrade the mics to EMW/B6 or COS11s. In the meantime, you can always rent wireless if you KNOW you'll need it. Someone mentioned this above, but when you dont have a mixer, using wireless can get quite disorganised with Rx packs clipped all over the cam and such.

All the above is merely opinion. Others will probably agree and disagree but in the end if you know what you tasks you need done, then you'll know what sort of stuff you need.


PS - You asked about how much a mixer is worth it without an external recorder? A HELL OF A LOT. Mixers and recorders are related but not linked devices. When shooting EFP/ENG, a mixer gives better preamps, metering, limiting, increases channels you can run, allows more monitoring options, faster reaction to level changes, a multitude more configuration options etc etc etc. Dont fall into the trap - it seems to me like you DO want a mixer, but DONT want a recorder (at least not yet).

Tim
 
I agree with everything tim says except about the zepplin. But i'm from a windy, rainy country, so can't ever shoot outside without one. for the $200 I might have saved, i'd be spending a lot more than that repairing a rained-on mic. and they do help protect the mic in transit and in hectic-sets etc.

get the SD302, definately.

and a bag? you will need a bag. Portabrace, KT Systems, or Petrol bags are three brands that spring to mind. I would go for a petrol bag, never used one though, but would love one.

about the B6/B3 lav thing. if it is soley documentary your shooting, ask yourself if its really worth the hassle hiding mics. It can be quite tricky, and got to be careful with placement, that your not affecting the sound and if your doing this outside the head of the mic will be exposed to wind and have to be careful with clothing noise.. all in all, its a bit of a headache and shouldn't really be done unless absolutely necessary. If working on docs I always try my jedi mind tricks on the director beforehand, telling him that he doesn't mind the lavs in sight. usually this doesn't work and I have to hide them.
 
Thanks again you all for all the wisdom. It is amazing.

Now, I don't want to stir the pot too much. But, from doing my research on the forum and elsewhere, it seems that we have a couple of camps when it comes to the necessity of the mixer. While everyone may accept it as an eventual necessity, some folks seem to have got along without one for quite some time and I assume produced very good (broadcast quality) results. I am thinking of Matt in particular who seems to have run sound through the camera for some time before moving to a mixer.

Any thoughts on this or is this a dead horse or just plain uninteresting?

Kevin.
 
Haven't seen Matt in awhile. I think he off shooting somewhere. I don't presume to speak for him but I think he will be the first to tell you that he has grown alot over the years in his audio experience and adding a mixer to the chain is a huge improvement. We even had a long thread on it about year ago.

Cheers
 
I did see that thread and he definitely seems to have "come around" to the necessity even though it seems as if he was fighting it.

But, I definitely see that there is no reason to go out and shoot great images if you don't have great sound to go with them unless you are doing a silent film.

That said, I am leaning heavily towards the mixer. But, I think that the recorder and additional accessories for synching would be above the budget at this point. But, as it was said, no reason to link the mixer and recorder.

Thanks again to everyone.

Kevin.
 
Something that I forgot to elaborate in my original list ...

We are going to want to put our boom on a stand. I noticed that K Tek sells some quite expensive equip to allow for this. However, I am figuring that we might be able to get away with a cheaper alternative.

Now, I will admit that I haven't done my homework on this one. So, if there is a thread out there, just direct me and I apologize for my laziness (but, hell, I am at my "real job" right now).

So, any suggested equip for putting the K-Tek Avalon KE-110CC on some type of a stand?

Kevin.
 
I made something that holds the boom onto a C-Stand. really easy, all you need is a 6 or 8 mm steel bar, and a vice. i'll elaborate if your interested.

but of course you'll need a c-stand to use it.
 
c-stand, sand bags, grip head and this (found this on another thread). Granted I have not tried mine but I believe others here have. (fishpole holder) 210-h is the one I have, they show out of stock but sure you can find with google.
 
wabbit said:
you will need 2 wireless if you need one (solo conversations don't happen often)
a mixer is pretty critical, get one (skip the wireless to save cash if you have to)

!
Click to expand...

All else being equal, for the given expense of a decent mixer, might one be better off with a flash recorder of some kind? won't that give you better sound dollar for dollar or peso for peso if you live in mexico?

Regarding the rarity of solo conversations, well, shows what you know wabbit, I often chat myself up for hours at a time...
 
:)

no, i would always opt for mixer before recorder, especially in this case.

they want less hassle, and improvements in quality. the mixer improves both the quality and the workflow, while the recorder (although cool) would mean more time in post for syncing and etc etc etc as Im sure they will not be able to afford a TC version.

Long story short, the chain of evolution is mixer, then, when needed, recorder.

Tim
 
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