Angel with Wings

K

krish

Well-known member
Hi I am working on the concept of a film that would require some CGI. I am not an expert so I would like some help. I have a character who will at the appropriate moment will trun from a homeless guy to an Angel with Wings and then fly straight up in the sky. The incident is suppose to take place in a cemetery. I have a large studio where I can setup a greenscreen and possibly some pully system. Something like the scene in the movie constantine.

Would appreciate any help.

-Krish
 
You are looking for photorealistic 3D rendering and compositing. The easy part is to film your actor against the green screen, and using a simple wire rig to lift him. That's the easy part. You will also need to place markers on your green screen for camera tracking to your 3D app, as well as your compositing software. If you are able, you might save some hassle and film on location, to take the green screen keying, color correction and lighting out of the hands of the compositor. That way you are left with wire removal only for your actor, and filing a clean back plate. That's all pretty simple, compared to the wings unfolding, spreading, and then any movement as he takes flight.

If you know your location, you can always start by getting creating an accurate HDR light probe, something you will need to properly light your 3D render. Here are a few links:

http://www.debevec.org/Probes/

http://www.drewrysoft.com/tutorials/hdri.htm

You can simplify that process largely, and can light a 3D scene surprisingly well with only a .jpg of your probe, but it helps to understand the theory.

The main problem is going to be in the modeling, texturing, lighting, and animating your wings, unless you plan on creating a practical element.

You mentioned Constantine, and that was some fairly involved 3D. Not only will you have to color match your subject with your 3D render, but you will also have to composite shadows from your wings onto the ground and onto your subject, as well as any reflections they would cast in the surroundings. The hardest part is definitely going to be creating photorealism in your 3D render.

This is a fairly ambitious shot for someone not an expert. Hell, it's an ambitious shot for someone who is an expert. You are going to have to find a 3D artist(s) capable of generating the 3D elements. You may want to rethink the shot and go with a practical set of wings, a clean back plate, and some simple masking. Once in the air, rotoscoping and either use of 3D space in AE, or scaling, either method with as much motion blur as you can get will help.

Good luck.
 
Wow, thanks. First of all I had no idea that its such a complex job but thanks for providing the detailed answer. I am still not sure about few of the things that your are talking about but will try to understand it better.

So one thing I absolutely need is a 3D artist.

Since i already know the location of the scene i might start working on this scene right from day one of our shoot this way the 3D artist will have plunty of time to comeplete it. In your estimate how many days of work is it to create a 3d wing. Our shoot will last about 15days and will stay in post for about another 30 days so thats about 45 days is that enough?

I will post a separate request for 3D artists in NY/NJ/PA area.

Thanks again,

Matt Grunau said:
You are looking for photorealistic 3D rendering and compositing. The easy part is to film your actor against the green screen, and using a simple wire rig to lift him. That's the easy part. You will also need to place markers on your green screen for camera tracking to your 3D app, as well as your compositing software. If you are able, you might save some hassle and film on location, to take the green screen keying, color correction and lighting out of the hands of the compositor. That way you are left with wire removal only for your actor, and filing a clean back plate. That's all pretty simple, compared to the wings unfolding, spreading, and then any movement as he takes flight.

If you know your location, you can always start by getting creating an accurate HDR light probe, something you will need to properly light your 3D render. Here are a few links:

http://www.debevec.org/Probes/

http://www.drewrysoft.com/tutorials/hdri.htm

You can simplify that process largely, and can light a 3D scene surprisingly well with only a .jpg of your probe, but it helps to understand the theory.

The main problem is going to be in the modeling, texturing, lighting, and animating your wings, unless you plan on creating a practical element.

You mentioned Constantine, and that was some fairly involved 3D. Not only will you have to color match your subject with your 3D render, but you will also have to composite shadows from your wings onto the ground and onto your subject, as well as any reflections they would cast in the surroundings. The hardest part is definitely going to be creating photorealism in your 3D render.

This is a fairly ambitious shot for someone not an expert. Hell, it's an ambitious shot for someone who is an expert. You are going to have to find a 3D artist(s) capable of generating the 3D elements. You may want to rethink the shot and go with a practical set of wings, a clean back plate, and some simple masking. Once in the air, rotoscoping and either use of 3D space in AE, or scaling, either method with as much motion blur as you can get will help.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
 
Lighting is a must to get right so take a lot of reference photos and do what Matt suggested with the Light Probe. Another thing Constantine did was have Stan Winston build a set of huge wings that they would bring on set and take shots of so later they could see how real light hit the wings and could emulate it later.
 
oneinfiniteloop said:
:grin: :grin: :grin:

lol...that's hilarious...hey, but it works, especially if it's fast motion.
Click to expand...





That's true, and I'll wager a healthy dose of motion blur has helped you out of a tight spot a time or two.

:thumbsup:
 
I did a somewhat similar type scene in the short thats in my signature. i didnt use any CG or anything, but i think the effect turned out halfway decent for the method used. of course it could be much better, but it all depends on the look/feel you want, and the lengths your willing to go to to get it i guess. CG or practically created prop wings really would be optimal as long as the artist can faithfully recreate your vision for the elements.
 
A good 3D guy should be able to do the model and animation in 5 days or so. Good lighting reference is important.

Fwing5.gif
 
For a "realistic" Angel do not forget the tremendous amount of air turbulence the wings will create; grass & dry leaves flying, maybe a bystander falling over... (like a light helicopter taking off). What, they do not do that? What do they need the wings for, then?

Another spoiler: somebody has calculated that an angel needs about 4 foot thick breast muscles to make him (her?) airborn...
 
Eric Elliott said:
A good 3D guy should be able to do the model and animation in 5 days or so. Good lighting reference is important.
Click to expand...

With what software? Modeling phtotorealistic wings in 5 days maybe. Modeling, texturing, rigging, animating, lighting, test renders and final rendering in 5 days would be quite a feat.

Still, I'de love to see this project done.
 
Last edited:
Petrus said:
For a "realistic" Angel do not forget the tremendous amount of air turbulence the wings will create; grass & dry leaves flying, maybe a bystander falling over... (like a light helicopter taking off). What, they do not do that? What do they need the wings for, then?

Another spoiler: somebody has calculated that an angel needs about 4 foot thick breast muscles to make him (her?) airborn...
Click to expand...


well, not to be nitpicky, but rather in defense of the general idea of his angel in the film. ..if were speaking "realistically", physical guidlines aren't necessary as far as muscle mass or thrust required/produced as an angel is not a physical being but rather meta-physical/spiritual being whos wings serve the purpose of glorious adornment in appearance and sacred covering rather than achieving actual physical flight. ..and any scriptural references to them depict them as male.

..that said, ..hey, its the movies. .. and "realistic" in the movies is generally about as "realistic" as "reality" TV. although I certainly do personally rather enjoy it when people are actually able to deal with the sobering elements of reality within a truely compelling story in thier film.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top