j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
So, it goes to show, that except for a select few felonies, almost anything that one does in one's 'youth', can be swept under a carpet, and even though there may be large lumps in the carpet, no one really cares...
Am I going to hurt my rep?
- Thread starter Steve Laramie
- Start date
So, it goes to show, that except for a select few felonies, almost anything that one does in one's 'youth', can be swept under a carpet, and even though there may be large lumps in the carpet, no one really cares...
RyanT
Veteran
Don't shoot shi*. That's what they say.
You can shoot all the crap that you want, but no one is ever going to want to watch it. I would spend the time you would be working on this terrible short looking for new and better directors. I didn't shoot anything for a half a year or so because I couldn't find a director I enjoyed working with and actually wrote films I thought were decent. Now that I've been shooting his films, once they go into festivals and do well, hopefully a lot of people will end up seeing them and I'll be getting a lot more good press than if I just shot some really crappy short.
In that time I just spent that time gripping and gaffing. Trying to hone my lighting and just studying whatever other materials I had.
So yeah...story is still EVERYTHING. Whether you're shooting or directing.
But then again, if you're getting paid....that's a different story. A very good story....
You can shoot all the crap that you want, but no one is ever going to want to watch it. I would spend the time you would be working on this terrible short looking for new and better directors. I didn't shoot anything for a half a year or so because I couldn't find a director I enjoyed working with and actually wrote films I thought were decent. Now that I've been shooting his films, once they go into festivals and do well, hopefully a lot of people will end up seeing them and I'll be getting a lot more good press than if I just shot some really crappy short.
In that time I just spent that time gripping and gaffing. Trying to hone my lighting and just studying whatever other materials I had.
So yeah...story is still EVERYTHING. Whether you're shooting or directing.
But then again, if you're getting paid....that's a different story. A very good story....
murraymile
Active member
Mattykins is right. I don't care who you are, professional or not, you really don't want to be ranting on a forum page that consists of filmmakers. From what I see, you're still young and you have a lot of growth to do in your work before you can start complaining.
There's two ways (Which I've seen producers, UPMs, Production Coordinator do) how rep travels fast. Word of mouth or the internet (search engines).
I'm not mentioning names, but I was working with an well establish producer that was about to hired someone for a key position. For this particular project, this was important position that needed to be handle with gentle hands. Long story short, the producer searched this persons name and found a few links that pretty much shared some negative comments about that individual. That person was pretty much never going to be hired again by that company.
Just be careful. Your young and it's going to take a while for you to mature into this business. Start sucking it up now or you're going to have a hard time making it. No matter how talented you are.
There's two ways (Which I've seen producers, UPMs, Production Coordinator do) how rep travels fast. Word of mouth or the internet (search engines).
I'm not mentioning names, but I was working with an well establish producer that was about to hired someone for a key position. For this particular project, this was important position that needed to be handle with gentle hands. Long story short, the producer searched this persons name and found a few links that pretty much shared some negative comments about that individual. That person was pretty much never going to be hired again by that company.
Just be careful. Your young and it's going to take a while for you to mature into this business. Start sucking it up now or you're going to have a hard time making it. No matter how talented you are.
Steve Laramie
Veteran
It wasn't close to a rant it was a legitimate question. You and Mattykins seem to be the only people who are appalled at my question. And I really don't think being young means anything when I am working on respectable movies. At least for the area.
HenryMurdoch
Member
I have to agree with Mattykins, simply because I've dealed with so many egomaniacs from actors to other producers who think they are too good for this, or too good for that. If you don't like something, you should back out of it and let someone do it who's interested or state your concerns and let them decide if they'll make changes to keep you on the project or remove you and find someone else.
Personally I wouldn't work with you either after reading this thread and you saying it's your back to back instance of complaining online.
But in answering your question, I feel that DPs should be more selective and depending on your rep, if you truly have one where you've done a few higher profile feature films, doing a bad project could make you look desperate and out of demand/favor like nobody wants to work with you for some reason.
It really is competitive for DPs I think because EVERYONE claims to be a DP. If you want to stay in high demand, you need to be involved in projects you believe in. You'll be more pleasant to work with if you want to be there, will be asked back for future projects, and you'll invest your time in people/projects that you feel have potential.
In many ways filmmaking is a series of judgement calls. If they have bad judgement on their script, you can expect other things to go wrong that you don't agree with.
Personally I wouldn't work with you either after reading this thread and you saying it's your back to back instance of complaining online.
But in answering your question, I feel that DPs should be more selective and depending on your rep, if you truly have one where you've done a few higher profile feature films, doing a bad project could make you look desperate and out of demand/favor like nobody wants to work with you for some reason.
It really is competitive for DPs I think because EVERYONE claims to be a DP. If you want to stay in high demand, you need to be involved in projects you believe in. You'll be more pleasant to work with if you want to be there, will be asked back for future projects, and you'll invest your time in people/projects that you feel have potential.
In many ways filmmaking is a series of judgement calls. If they have bad judgement on their script, you can expect other things to go wrong that you don't agree with.
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Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
I think it's funny. Does that count?
Being young does mean something. You'll understand when you're older. lol :thumbsup: Don't you hate that!
Steve Laramie
Veteran
Thats all I wanted from this thread I had no intention of complaining or putting anyone down. I just wanted to know if it was bad to take every job that comes my way or if I should sculpt my resume.
I would try and get a feel for the people behind the project. Even if its a really bad script, if you get a sense that the people are going to support you as an artist to make a great looking piece and if they are bright enough to grow into better writers/filmmakers, then it would be worth it.
The problem is that there are real true blue HACKS out there who could not give a rats ass about image quality or lighting. They will not support your attempts to make the piece visually interesting, and your work will suffer for it.
I'm ashamed to say (and glad I dont use a real name on this forum) that I shot for one real hack of an actor/director who didn't care at all about that how a piece looks as long as he was in front of the camera and offered no support or vision to make it look nice other offering his handsome mug (not). The only reason I did it was because I was not doing anything else and I got PAID.
It's a tough call when you have to pay your rent and yet you know you're going to be in a situation where you may not want your name associated it.
People are forgiving of past work - but you can't necessarily excuse yourself that you did it for the money, when you're not there watching the movie with them. I guess that kind of stuff in enough quantity will catch up to you and make you look like a complete hack yourself!
EDIT: I would be careful about posting stuff about other projects if you have a real name on your signature or handle. This is a very popular forum.
The problem is that there are real true blue HACKS out there who could not give a rats ass about image quality or lighting. They will not support your attempts to make the piece visually interesting, and your work will suffer for it.
I'm ashamed to say (and glad I dont use a real name on this forum) that I shot for one real hack of an actor/director who didn't care at all about that how a piece looks as long as he was in front of the camera and offered no support or vision to make it look nice other offering his handsome mug (not). The only reason I did it was because I was not doing anything else and I got PAID.
It's a tough call when you have to pay your rent and yet you know you're going to be in a situation where you may not want your name associated it.
People are forgiving of past work - but you can't necessarily excuse yourself that you did it for the money, when you're not there watching the movie with them. I guess that kind of stuff in enough quantity will catch up to you and make you look like a complete hack yourself!
EDIT: I would be careful about posting stuff about other projects if you have a real name on your signature or handle. This is a very popular forum.
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ChrisHurn
Well-known member
I agree with Mattykins, too.
It's pretty simple really. Don't do a project you don't believe in. If you are, then it better be for a learning experience. And leave your ego at the door.
You mentioned the people in this project don't check DVXUser. Fine. But let's say I'm mr big shot director, and I'm hiring you for a project in a year for a big indie film production. I'm going to google your name, I will find your posts on DVXUser, I will see this thread, and I will kick you out of the crew. Simple as that. Even if you believed in the current project. From your posts you sound like the opposite of who I'd want to work with. (Which is a little unfortunate because I'm sure on set, you put in your best). By the way, you have a link to DVXUser on your website...
I've worked on things before where I have known very little about what I was doing, but I did it anyway (because everyone has to start somewhere, right?). There were definitely people working on those particular projects that knew more than I did, and found subtle ways to show that. I was really annoyed. I have come a long way since then, but I'm never going to work with those people again. And if I was the director of this project, and saw this post, I would be really offended. I cannot stand people like that. Don't become another DP who thinks he's a god. You have a long way to go, like most people, so why not take anything you can get, and believe in it every time. Find new ways to look at things you consider to be "simple", or bad.
This is hurting your rep right now. Taking a project and doing a good job on it won't hurt your rep. How many people are going to see that guys film anyway? 20? Mostly, the kind of people who watch low budget short films and whatever are filmmakers, OR they know the difference between writing and cinematography. You never know where you'll make contacts.
Everybody has to learn. You'd be surprised how far someone might progress in a few years, especially in something like filmmaking. This person you're working with might not know your fancy cinematography terms, might not care much for technical details or even framing etc. But people change, especially when they are young. Five years time, this guy might be making a feature that knocks out sundance. It could happen.
You are extremely well equipped for your age and have done some nice work. Sincerely. You've done a lot, and it looks like you're very passionate about cinematography. Aside from this issue it looks like you handle yourself pretty well, and I hope you continue to work on some nice projects. Consider everything a new experience. Make friends with everyone. All the best.
It's pretty simple really. Don't do a project you don't believe in. If you are, then it better be for a learning experience. And leave your ego at the door.
You mentioned the people in this project don't check DVXUser. Fine. But let's say I'm mr big shot director, and I'm hiring you for a project in a year for a big indie film production. I'm going to google your name, I will find your posts on DVXUser, I will see this thread, and I will kick you out of the crew. Simple as that. Even if you believed in the current project. From your posts you sound like the opposite of who I'd want to work with. (Which is a little unfortunate because I'm sure on set, you put in your best). By the way, you have a link to DVXUser on your website...
I've worked on things before where I have known very little about what I was doing, but I did it anyway (because everyone has to start somewhere, right?). There were definitely people working on those particular projects that knew more than I did, and found subtle ways to show that. I was really annoyed. I have come a long way since then, but I'm never going to work with those people again. And if I was the director of this project, and saw this post, I would be really offended. I cannot stand people like that. Don't become another DP who thinks he's a god. You have a long way to go, like most people, so why not take anything you can get, and believe in it every time. Find new ways to look at things you consider to be "simple", or bad.
This is hurting your rep right now. Taking a project and doing a good job on it won't hurt your rep. How many people are going to see that guys film anyway? 20? Mostly, the kind of people who watch low budget short films and whatever are filmmakers, OR they know the difference between writing and cinematography. You never know where you'll make contacts.
Everybody has to learn. You'd be surprised how far someone might progress in a few years, especially in something like filmmaking. This person you're working with might not know your fancy cinematography terms, might not care much for technical details or even framing etc. But people change, especially when they are young. Five years time, this guy might be making a feature that knocks out sundance. It could happen.
You are extremely well equipped for your age and have done some nice work. Sincerely. You've done a lot, and it looks like you're very passionate about cinematography. Aside from this issue it looks like you handle yourself pretty well, and I hope you continue to work on some nice projects. Consider everything a new experience. Make friends with everyone. All the best.
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Michele Seidman
Well-known member
ok..old broad walking...
Lairhair....maybe it is because I am an older person that I am seeing irony in the words above. The thread starts with you making the project sound bad.
SOOOOO...no, you are not going to give it your best because even if you mean to and want to...you have already convinced yourself that the project is bad and not worth it. If you do not put a positive spin on it from the start...the negative will be what takes over. Period. end of the matter....
Now, don't get totally miffed because I know it can be hard to stay positive and dificult to live in an area where there are not a lot of options but if YOU don't have any faith in it...even forced faith....then it will show in your work as well as others.
I have been part of this biz for a long time and one thing I have noticed....those at the top set the tone. Producers, Directors, lead talent...DP's...anyone in the 'above the line' section of a film sets the tone for everyone else.
If there are problems at the top...it trickles down and shows in everyone's work. I can (but won't) name several features I worked on that there were problems with attitudes above the line and bickering and each one of those projects failed in the long run. Not because the scripts were not good...not because the actors sucked...not because the DP did bad work....ONLY because the attitude trickled down.
That is my 2 cents anyway...take it or toss it!
Michele, I wouldn't assume everyone on this board is a teeny bopper. There's lots of mature people here. I'm an immature 37 yr old, I know there's other people here a lot older than that even. Really, it's a crazy mix of people on this forum.
Your words of wisdom ring true. If you don't like a project/script and are being paid as a department head, you have to put into it 100% regardless. It's only professional, and your poor attitude will only make it miserable for everybody and will also undermine your leadership. You'll lose respect really fast too, and that rep may carry word of mouth.
For non-paid stuff, it's like every one else says, if you don't feel good about the project or the people, there's no reason in hell to do it!!
Your words of wisdom ring true. If you don't like a project/script and are being paid as a department head, you have to put into it 100% regardless. It's only professional, and your poor attitude will only make it miserable for everybody and will also undermine your leadership. You'll lose respect really fast too, and that rep may carry word of mouth.
For non-paid stuff, it's like every one else says, if you don't feel good about the project or the people, there's no reason in hell to do it!!
S
SeanEmer
Guest
In that vein, i've seen situations where, when the crew and above the liners like DP, Production Designer, and AD were working with a director who didn't give a rats ass, their "go get 'em" attitude actually lifted the director's expectations enough that he actually started to develop a sense of what he wanted.
Of course, the film still didn't come out that well but the point is that even if your director is letting you down, you can still bring him up.
Absolutely true. And there are consequences, for sure.