Am I completely off my rocker?

M

Mino

Northern Dreamer
I’ve got to get this off my chest cos I feel like an idiot.
This is the second year in a row I have produced the visuals for this show, and though it looks deceptively that I’m well on top of it ,I can almost see the unrest in the waters ahead the storm of last minute changes is gathering strength. The show is for a local collection of businesses who shall remain nameless. I am contacted by an acquaintance who shall also remain nameless. Last year I made $1800.00 for what I will now describe. Six award categories with three nominees in each. I take a bunch of still shots and render them out 1 by 1 in 3d studio max adding motion pans and zoom etc to make it look like video. Each nominee has a min of five stills to a max 0f 24 the average being 15 or so each render takes from 6 to 20 some odd minutes. These rendered AVI clips are then pulled into premiere where dissolves and stuff are added. Once that is done, I bring in talent to do the voice overs, depending on the person they send this process can take from 6 to 12 hours(21 half to full page reads.) This gets mixed in with the vid and music a tweak here and there, then the client adds more images or changes the script. Phase two starts….Two hour director presentation with all the bells and whistles which will be the mainstay on the screens for 90% of the show. Sponsor logos, award finalists, winners all get their own page with effects, walk up music walk off music yada yada. Show night …all my equipment is torn out of my den , moved ten miles in my car and set up, tested at the event the night before. Next day is rehearsals and finally four hours of show. My DVX and Manfrotto tripod handle the live eye stuff. Client approves music choices a week out, but doesn’t like it 4 hours before event. For all this I got $1800.00.
This year I’m expected to tear $300.00 of the bill because the client overshot their awards show budget on other areas. I am unemployed and this is what keeps a roof over my head and the car paid for. I would like to tell this whole entourage to kindly go and **** themselves. Total hours invested in this years project 80 so I’m making 18.75 an hour…I’m ok with that but I’m only up to having the 21 videos rendered out. And oh yes they've added another award catagory with three new nominees. When I’m done I’ll be well into the 300.00 hour mark, do the math. Plus I have to set up all my gear and provide the DVX. All this for $1500.00 and a very solid five weeks work.
So…Finally my question…Am I crazy? Would you guys do this? What are my options. I feel 100% used here. For any one who actually took the time to read this long winded piece I humbly thank you.
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

Charge $1800.00, their lack of controling their budget (if true) isn't your problem.
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

I know how tough things can be when work is slow.  But you have to draw the line at some point.  Explain to them the man hours that you put into this, as well as what the gear usually rents out for.  They will not find anybody with your skills to do it at that price.  
I know that fine line.  But unless you say something, they seem like the type that will walk all over anybody.  YOu have to keep clients happy, yes.  But unless they really know your end of it, it is all magic to them.
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

If I were hired directly by the client I might have a chance. Instead the client hires this small AV company owned as I said by an aquaintance of mine who is a ****ing shyster anyway, scuse my language. Were I not unemployed at the moment and not 2000.00 in overdraft I would'nt be vaporizing the board with this gibberish. It would be $3000.00 or find someone else. And don't get me wrong (not to imply you were) I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm just frustrated with the whole ugly mess!
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

If your "friend" runs a AV company he knows how much work this all is. If they are anywhere near decen,t a firm discusion of reality has to get you either more money, or less work. Or perhaps it is worth it to go to the source for more money. That is a drastic move. But it seems you have far to much skills to go through this. It is tough to be firm, but once again if you do not, it is just going to get worse.
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

The guy I work directly for does for sure the shyster... The other tactic he uses which burns my ass is to say that last years event brought some attention but no business (implying that there could be way more interest and work this year) so we,ve got to try harder to make a more razzle dazzle show this year. I,m the ideot shmuck who chose to use Director as a platform...Twice the work but way more control over look and feel of the presentation. I should just have used powerpoint and gone doink doink on the spacebar all night.
What keeps me going this time is the belief that next year will bring better times and I can wait till two weeks before the show and say I quit...just too much work for the money and either get the rate I deserve or screw them.
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

Sorry, but that's outrageous. At $1800, you're already *ridiculously* undercharging for the work you're doing. It was painful reading that. Your options? How about submitting a bill for $2500, that *itemizes* all the work and a gentle note that there is NO effects house/production company that would touch the same job for less than $8000-$10,0000. Of course, it sounds like you had no agreement up front (a terrible mistake), but you're entitled to make at least minimum wage--yes?
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

No offense Mino, but this guy is taking you for a ride.  It is a bunch O bussiness guys.  Eating their rubber chicken, having a few drinks, at catching quick glances at any hotties when their wives are not looking.
Yes you have to make thinks look proffesional.  But he is throwing you a line, and a cheap promise, and neither pay the bills.  Do good work for them, but do not bust your balls for minimum wage so some ass looks good and reaps all the benifits.  You could probably pull the whole show off yourself, and it sounds like this guy needs you.
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

Hopefully you haven't been handing over any completed footage to this "aquaintance". If you've still got the deliverables, than you've you've got this joker by the balls. Normally, I would caution against burning bridges, but this guy is just bad news and you're better off being rid him anyway. So, I would let him know that you're going to be bringing a contract to be signed and you expect a check before you hand over the final package. The contract should spell out all the work in detail and the associated charges and will prevent the shyster from cancelling the check.
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

Thanks to all replies...I'ts nice to confirm that I'm being had here. No Barry, the shyster has nothing and won't till show night. To take your advice will most certainly mean no show next year for me But I certainly won't be in this boat next year so no loss. I will continue to produce the best show I can and present the itemized bill to the shyster on setup day. And vow to never allow myself to be in this predicament again.
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

I love the idea of a detailed invoice. Let him know what you do, and what you expect for it in the future.

Great to hear you have a good head space about the whole thing. If you keep it professional, nothing bad can come back to you. Good luck.
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

Okay, first let me qualify my background - not to try and impress (it's really quite embarrassing how this "career" helped me deviate from my true calling of film production) but to just give you an idea of where my advice is coming from.

I come from about fifteen years of live event management working as a producer, promoter and AV coordinator. I've worked directly for clients through IATSE and as a company man, so I have a good idea what it's like on both sides of the fence. Like all the big guys in this field, I've done events with Microsoft, Ford, Sun Microsystems, AIG et-cetera et-cetera. The company I worked for was AVHQ, and I was the GM for their San Francisco Staging office. Okay, so now you know about that nonsense!

The guy who is brokering your extensive and excessive talent is acting as a producer - making you a subcontractor. You are therefore unable to negotiate (and should not in most instances) your own contract with the end-client.

What you should already know is that live event producers and production [project] managers usually have a very, very shallow local talent pool to uh... pool from. To travel in comparable talent, with per diems, lodging and incidentals rarely fits into the budget presented to the client. Therefore, local guys are most often leaned on to get the job done.

Even in the largest markets, there are few guys freelancing in your capacity. I'm from San Francisco - a huge convention market - and we were always struggling to pull talent resources for crew positions. We could call the IA, but if you wanted someone who brought the whole package like a teleprompter guy, you have no other choice but to hire someone like you. In San Francisco, we had two or three prompter operators that weren't tied to a broadcaster or corporation.

As an example: guys like my favorite prompter operator, Joe Rinaldi, were very hard to get on short notice, and demanded day rates like $400 / prep, $500 - $650 / show day plus the cost of their gear. Add time to load a script (or build a show in your offline environment) and you can get into real money.

When budgeting for the client, we broke down his labor based on his day rate divided by his eight or ten hour minimum ($500 / 10 = $50 an hour). This number, $50 was multiplied by a common 15 - 50% multiplier to get us about $65 - $75 an hour rate from the client. The producer who hired you - if he has been doing this a while - is doing this same thing for [to] you.

We separated his prompter gear plus 20 - 100% mark-up into the equipment detail of our formal proposal and contract.

What all this means is that your hiring producer likely has a bit or a lot of wiggle room in his budget to pull extra resources to bring you to the table. A guy like me, who worked on labor-side and corporate-side over the years, often let quite a bit more money fall below the line to my team. That's just me though. Lots of producers will talk **** about you the minute you walk around the corner - just depends on their personality.

Don't let anyone tell you that prestige or spin-off derivative work will ever follow if you sacrifice [whore yourself for the love of the work] this one time. If you're not a screw-up, it's a cinch that the client would love to have you back again for their incentive event! No kidding - you use almost broadcast-quality tools and effects like jump-backs where most would use the PowerPoint application they have sitting in their AV office.

Those life insurance salesmen / medical association / industrial machining standards engineers do not know you. They will not call you for more work or refer you to someone to reward you for the generous sub work you've done for your general / producer. Should you bend over backwards for the group and your hiring producer - YES. Should you do it for free - ABSOLUTELY NOT.

You need to immediately counter the AV guy / Producer / "Friend" who has brought you back to the table. Don't let on that you need the work - hopefully you haven't already. You'll have a lot more leverage if you sound busy enough to pass on work that compromises you or makes you sacrifice better-paying gigs. Let him know that you've made adjustments in the past, but that your time is too valuable to continue to discount your services.

Be ready to back this up. Be prepared to offer a compromise technology using the streamlined tools you hate. Remember that when you give the producer your rate, you are giving him minimum hourly calls for pre-production, rehearsal days and show days. These minimums are not negotiable. I recommend 4 hours, 10 hours and 10 hours respectively. If a load-in and rehearsal day are one and the same, operate under one 10 hour minimum. Use the 10 hour minimums to figure your hourly rate - e.g., $400 day rate = 10 hours at $40. In big cities, many guys will figure the ten hour day as a regular time rate for the first eight and overtime for the 9th and 10th hour to satisfy the labor board.

Conversely, you can just bill him 1099 as a "service" with your gear and labor combined. Doing this will often get you paid slower - payroll falls under strict regulation, while PO based AR/AP net billing is much, much looser.

Anyway... I could go on forever. In my opinion, you need to really draw a line in the sand here. Do it in a professional way - going into the discusssion with confidence and the equity you've already earned on past shows. When push comes to shove, I'd be willing to bet that your hiring producer would likely be able to shift enough resources to get you paid as you should be without hitting the end-client for another dime - he'll just make 38 points instead of 40 on the deal.

You can PM me if I can be of any help or if you'd like to hear me rant more about labor abuses in live event production.

Good luck brother!

e
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

Wow..I'm honored that you took the time to write all that. Thanks for your honest approach to the situation. I've been in the av world for about six of seven years now and done everything from lead tech in house at large chain hotels to free lance babysitting nervous clients with two wireless mics and a powerpoint presentation. I have booked desighned and built large corporate events and done the seven day a week 14 hour a day hump for the love of it. I was trained however, to build the presentation material be it powerpoint, director, video, audio so I should know the ropes. A while ago I decided to freelance and got lots of work until it dried up at xmas as it will. The guy, my producer knows full well the amount of work I get as a freelance av tech. I should have played it smart in retrospect and created the illusion that I was busier than I am. There is more to the story as to my sad financial state at the moment and I take full responsibility for my predicament. I should have learned the first time out but sometimes I seem to need to hammer myself with it and here I am. The lesson has been learned this time and I guess on the bright side that is the most important part. I feel like the young naieve antelope on the savana with the cheeta closing in, but I'll outrun the bugger. Thanks so much for the help and encouragement.....now back to the render farm.

Ps the last full time position I had was with the Canadian division of AVHQ, did three years with them.
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

I've also been on both sides of the equation, and my main recommendation would be to set a realistic competitive hourly rate for your work.  Before the job--you meet with the client and go over the tasks in detail.  You come back with a proposal that estimates the hours and hourly rates (broken down by task), materials, equipment, talent costs, and the terms of payment--the Scope of Work/Contract.  You start work only after the client signs off.  If during the job, it looks like the total hours will be more or there are additional tasks--an addendum gets written up and signed by the client.  At the end of the work there are no surprises for anyone.
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

Thanks Barry...I walked right through the big glass door on this one. part of the problem was / is the lack of negotiation on my part, going in with the knowledge that this shyster/ freind/ aqaintance will pay the bill at the end of the day and I so desparately needed the work. I was in beggars can't be choosers mode...I quite often trust deals and people at face value but as my girlfriend just pointed out, shyster has been forced to relocate and his rent has doubled and his divorce is in progress which means more financial woes. So I guess I,ve been had, but at least I'm helping to feed his kid ;D

I am going to present the bill with an itemized list before the show and take some short cuts like burning the video to DVD and having the sound man q up the music so as not to have to embed it in Director, I mean the bugger will need something to do for two hours rather than ride the podium mic right?
 
Re: Am I completely off my rocker?

You know the game... sounds like you just let your short-term challenges get in the way of making a fiscally sound deal on this one.

e
 
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