Affordable On-Camera LEDs used OFF CAMERA for narrative

T

therussian

Well-known member
I think the title says it all...
I'm looking for a small, affordable LED light, on-camera light, to be used on a stand off camera for shooting night exterior scenes on streets etc... Of course I don't want to light up the whole street, just to create nice medium and close up shots, as a kicker or backlight or sidelight or who knows... :)

I was looking at the Manfrotto 84 LED Maxima (somewhere its called 840) and HDV z96. Other options are either too expensive or too cheap chinese products....

I'm not really confident in lumens, how these compare to watts?

I'm really excited about this new range from Manfrotto:
https://vimeo.com/63927433

Does anyone have info when they will be released? It's been a while since the NAB...
 
LED lights just aren't very good. They do have advantages (being able to power a YongNuo YN-160 off a DVXUser battery is pretty sweet!) but you have to understand the limitations that come with that. You get mediocre color rendition, less-pleasing skin tones, typically "spotty" light (meaning, not a nice smooth falloff but a harsher light), really limited control, major issues with dimming and CMOS cameras, and a very small source so the light is really limited in what it can be used for.

Other than that, they're great! :)

I bought a couple of the YongNuo YN-160's for the use you describe, because they come with a tripod mount and barn doors, and can be run off a camcorder battery. The reality of the situation is that the barn doors are useless and do absolutely nothing to control the light, and even though the light is dimmable, if you dim the light you'll cause scrolling bands in your CMOS camera's footage.

Bottom line -- they can be used for some things. They are not a good choice for fulfilling a versatile position in your kit; a tungsten Fresnel is vastly more versatile than a camera-mountable LED. But, where there is a will there's a way, and a determined no-budgeter could certainly put these LEDs to work. I do think you would get better results with less effort and much less hassle by using conventional lights (tungsten or HMI) that are designed for the job, but the battery-powered nature of the LEDs combined with the sensitivity of today's DSLRs does open up some possibilities.
 
What Barry said.
I have a Z96 that gets taken out every once in a while to fill in something in the background or create a wash/accent, but it's not ideal for lighting people. On the plus side, it's small and only needs a few rechargeable AA batteries so it's easy to always have around. It has saved many a shot, but it's just not good enough to be a main light.
 
But if it used in "cinematic" style, I mean as a kicker light, or create a small fill from the sides, or creating a silhouette?
 
therussian said:
But if it used in "cinematic" style, I mean as a kicker light, or create a small fill from the sides, or creating a silhouette?
Click to expand...
Sure; any light can be used for effect, you just have to determine if you like it. Just watch the whole dimming/CMOS thing, as that can cause really distracting artifacts on the footage, and you would want to be careful about using it for fill, as the color rendering may not be comparable with what you're using for a key.
 
I've got a 312 LED that I like a lot. Can't remember where I got it unfortunately but they are all over the web. I don't know if it matters which one you get these days, but mine seems to work pretty well with a 1/8 Magenta on it . It puts out a lot of light and costs only a little over $100. Personally I haven't seen a big advantage to more expensive LED lights over the cheap ones. Just add a little magenta and keep your eyes open & watch the color. ASs someone else here mentioned always have 1/8 & 1/4 gels with you in all 4 directions. Don't use a color meter either- use your eyeballs and the monitor.
. The 312 looks quite pretty with a airbox softbox which you can get from B&H for about $35. ( I didn't get the eggcrate so can't comment on that. I use it for a quick kicker, backlight, sun gun or whatever. Pretty nice for the $'s.
Mine is 5600 as I want all the output I can get when daylight and I just gel it for tungsten. The plastic "CTO" they provide is terrible though - just throw it away.
 
Barry, thanks!

Well, I want to use it on street, for exterior night shots. I'm going to use all the available lighting at the actual location, but I would like to have at least one light that I can use for enhancing the available situation. So I thought of purchasing some cheap small LED lights. Better than nothing, right? :)

I really wanted to go for the Manfrotto Maxima (http://www.manfrotto.com/led-light-maxima-84-hybrid-850lxat1m-dimmer-flash-gels-ml840h)
but I found out that it only uses built in battery, so I have to charge it plugged into the wall, I can't have spare batteries with me for longer shoots.... The smaller Manfrotto lights use AA batteries... But their power is small I think. So I'm considering to purchase the HDV z96 light (http://www.fvlighting.com/z96-led-light-panel.html).

I really don't know... I would rather stick with a European known brand like Manfrotto, but the built in battery is a huge minus for me..
 
The banding issue or flicker effect that is noticeable on many LED lights is really due to the design of the LED driver that controls the dimming aspect of the circuitry. That design, also known as PWM dimming ( pulse width modulation) is used most often as it is the cheapest one to implement but not suited for video capture use at CERTAIN shutter speeds. Many units that use the PWM have the frequency of pulsation ( at certain dim levels) that when used in conjunction of certain shutter camera speed (s) produce the banding effect that is noticeable and impossible to correct in post. The ideal dimming scheme would require a LED driver that has a constant current feed to the leds thereby varying the current and not the frequency width for on/off pulse duration. The only problem is that few and expensive ones use it. There are, however certain PWM drivers that have the frequency located at a much higher band area that will allow higher shutter frame rates for the camera to operate. At shutter speeds of 30 or 25 FPS the PWM will not be a problem but at certain dim levels of the light it may cause the banding effect. LED light have come a long way in light quality, but there are many brands that still use outdated led emitters that have low CRI as well as being of a spotty nature and are usually ( like most often) come in the bluish high Kelvin variety. Not only must they be color gelled but also be diffused to produce a wider beam. Add those two filters together and see how much that bright light goes down in intensity. Bluish leds or daylight rendition are used in most lights as they produce more output than the 3200K variety so they look good on specs. Bluish emitters are always in the low CRI numbers ( 60-75 ) as compared with some really top notch 90+ ones in the warmer color ranges. Sure, LEDS do have a void or valley in their color spectrum but I look at results on the monitor rather than specs on paper. Those who say led units are not suited well for video use probably have not seen or tried the good stuff. I myself use a on camera led light that has 3000 K with 90 CRI using only 2 power class LEDS in it. It outputs the equivalent of a 150 watt filament and consuming only 20 watts fed by a Sony L series battery, non PWM driver and is custom made, as I couldn't find anything out there ( at any price) that I liked.
 
Norman, this doesn't sound too good. What should or could I buy than? Do you have any first hand experience with any of the products I mentioned? z96, Manfrotto Maxima, Datavision.... If I could then I would buy a Litepanels Luma, but that's out of my budget...
 
What doesn't sound too good ?
Those cheap led lights out there are just that, you get what you pay for. The most common complaints are, in my opinion, they are blue and spotty, they deliver off color rendition no matter how well you white balance them, poor quality control, plasticky construction, dimmer switch breaks often, using gels and diffuser drops down the brightness, not well sealed for the elements, drop them once and throw them away, etc, etc,.
I m not saying you shouldn't buy them, just be aware of their shortcomings in terms of color quality and reliability. If I had to choose a unit from those mentioned, I would go for the Z96 as I have 2 of them for use as kickers and both have proven to be reliable. I prefer the 3000-3200K native color emitters for 2 main reasons, they do not need to be gelled for indoor tungsten balance and their high CRI index is greater than the daylight ones. Then, that all depends on the conditions you will need them for. The variable color ones are fine but good ones are perhaps over your budget. Eveness of illumination across the field is also an important factor unless you do not need the wide angle coverage such as for interview work. As a starter a couple of Z96's would do fine and can also be used later on as accent lights when you can afford something that is more up to pro standards. For many the Z96's are the best bang for the buck, in my opinion.
 
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