Affordable HMIs

vidled said:
Well, it's an HDI light, with that you are faced with some problems for video, namely VERY POOR CRI. Forget the color temp, the CRI is what's off here. I'd expect these to be in the neighborhood of 85 or so.
My stating: "flicker seems acceptable" means I couldn't see any noticeable flicker in the video, although this wasn't tested really to any extent, so I can't give any accurate info on shutter speeds vs. flicker. etc.
IIRC there was an issue with the cord of the light fixture: i.e. it didn't like being too long.
The whole shebang is about $135, and it's definitely worth that, but I won't commit beyond that. Hope this is helpful, although vague.
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Its not true that all HID metal halides are poor CRI. There is GE ConstantColor and Philips MasterColor series for example but the color temp selection is limited right now to 3000K and 4000K and CRI's go into the 90s (and what exactly is wrong with CRI 85?--I've used CRI 80 with no problems for digital media):

http://www.gelighting.com/na/business_lighting/education_resources/literature_library/sell_sheets/downloads/hid/46906_constantcolor_cmh_se_g12.pdf


http://www.nam.lighting.philips.com/us/ecatalog/hid/pdf/p-5497.pdf

And there are many others in the series for both companies--this is just example literature.

And Chinese companies are getting into the act to with higher CRI metal halide bulbs and with an even wider range of color temps which includes 5500K. A 150w metal halide HID bulb puts out between 11,000 and 12,000 lumens. And their specs claim 90 and higher CRIs. Thats not too bad...
 
shawneous said:
Thanks vidled, I appreciate it. I think I'll get it and test it. I wouldn't call 85 very poor (below 80 seems poor to me). Is there a way to test the CRI of it for sure? They are going to be at NAB and I'll be there, maybe I should swing by their booth.

Last night I had an idea...what if I took an older 1k or 2k mole fresnel (they go on eBay for under $200 with barn doors all the time) then rewired it to take this alzo bulb? For like $300 you could have a 5300k fresnel! I've been trying to think of why this won't work and can't come up with anything
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I agree, nothing wrong with 85 for sure. Its pretty darn good in fact and you don't lose so many lumens like you do with higher CRI bulbs. I think 85 to 87 is actually a great compromise that still gives you lumens as well as good color rendering. Besides, we're talking about video here, not film.
 
Hey Richard, thanks for joining the thread. I went to your links and then how you mention 5500k 90+CRI Halide bulbs sounds super attractive. The problem is twofold. First, how would I get a good ballast? The advantage of buying from Alzo is that they have a ballast I can buy. If I go outside them I don't know where to get a ballast specifically for video use. Second, the UV concern. I want to use my bulb in a chimera lantern so gelling it just isn't an option. Plus the Alzo people seem to have put UV filtering in the bulb (the spec page on their site shows how low the UV from their bulbs is). I do not like the looks of their cheapo light fixtures, so I am most inclined to just purchase the ballast and bulb.
 
shawneous said:
Hey Richard, thanks for joining the thread. I went to your links and then how you mention 5500k 90+CRI Halide bulbs sounds super attractive. The problem is twofold. First, how would I get a good ballast? The advantage of buying from Alzo is that they have a ballast I can buy. If I go outside them I don't know where to get a ballast specifically for video use. Second, the UV concern. I want to use my bulb in a chimera lantern so gelling it just isn't an option. Plus the Alzo people seem to have put UV filtering in the bulb (the spec page on their site shows how low the UV from their bulbs is). I do not like the looks of their cheapo light fixtures, so I am most inclined to just purchase the ballast and bulb.
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Where will you get a good ballast? That's why there are people like me that are looking for stuff like that all the time. For now, I agree with you. It doesn't make sense to play around with this until someone comes up with a good and safe DIY solution for metal halide. Someone might be working on that right now too!:happy:
 
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I'm also considering placing an alzo 800w in my Chimera pancake. Just got to find a porcelain socket to handle the bulb. Is that considered a mogul base, I forget ? Alzo bulb base is regular screw in and same size as household bulbs. Or is mogul base bigger than that ?
UV is a concern, but as long as people are not exposed to bare bulb it should be OK, right? Used in a lightbox , UV would be blocked by silk.
I visited the Alzo booth last month at DC's GV Expo (Barry Green was covering for Jan at Panny booth.). QC has been a problem in past - units would arrive DOA sometimes, etc. but Alzo has made some improvements that should help. Bulbs are being burned-in at the factory before being shipped out and something in the ballast that was prone to falling out is now more securely fastened.
Customers are still recommended to burn-in their new bulbs for four hours before using in the field/set. Hot bulbs cannot be restruck for at least 5 min. after shut down. Not sure what happens if restruck sooner - failure to ignite, bulb explosion ?
3 head unit has internal fan cooling which seemed pretty quiet, but showroom floor was noisy. Can't remember if basic ballast has internal fan or not.
Bottom line - price is right for lots of daylight(or 5300) Not real robust, but definitely aimed at indie filmakers and doc shooters on a budget.
 
imagine podding 4X 2400W lamps runing it off a Genny for out door night shoots.....

You can light up a whole street or light up a building in the background off a 2000W Genny..... thin of the posiblities of gettting almost 8000W of light, off an inexpensive, generator...... I would have Given my arm for this on KAtrina.
 
I wish that the people who actually owned these low-cost alternatives would post more thorough reviews. I've got a night forrest shoot in the summer and I can buy these lights for the cost of one weekend rental of HMIs. Do I expect them to be as good? No! But if they will work I'd rather own a full nearly-HMI kit then simply have the pleasure of holding an HMI for a weekend
 
"HMI's and affordable" some may say that is a oxymoron

but those don't to prices


(sorry that was in no way helping to your post)
 
The filmmaking industry strangehold on technology must come to an end. I know there are people who say "you get what you pay for". Yeah...well my $1500 laptop is a ton better than my dad's $3,000 386. Technology moves forward, just look at what is happening to Red. To shoot something down for "not costing enough" is naive at best. I agree, these Alzo's aren't going to be like a Joker. But you know, if they can be 80% what a Joker is for less than 10% of the price then I believe we have a winner folks.
 
hey Shawn,
Keep us informed when you get your lights. Right now I'm spent when it comes to budget, but with time I'll be looking to adding lights to my arsenal. and I agree with you. I rather own than rent. I just like to have these in hand so i can practice and learn rather than just have a weekend to try to figure stuff out.
Good luck
 
shawneous said:
I just ordered the Alzo ballast and bulb kit with an extra bulb. Once I get it I'll test it out and post back
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Good stuff. I'm sure you'll like it. We [will] use it with an inexpensive reflector from Walmart. (Interestingly enough, the cheapo reflectors from Walmart give a somewhat different beam pattern than the ones from Home Depot, so be sure to check out which you like best.)
Also, since you mentioned your night shoot; that plant-HID (with quasi-metal halide bulb) I mentioned might be worthwhile for you too. I believe we paid $150 for a 1000W light with ballast and reflector. That's a lot of light for little money.
The idea of putting that bulb in a fresnel light that you had in this thread is a terrific one, as the other thing these lights lack (the Alzo one, and the plant-HID one) is controllability of the light.
 
vidled said:
The idea of putting that bulb in a fresnel light that you had in this thread is a terrific one, as the other thing these lights lack (the Alzo one, and the plant-HID one) is controllability of the light.
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Not to mention keeping UV from straying all over the place too.
 
miracom said:
Please do! Low cost DIY metal halide is next on my research and development list.
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but first you'll get the dimmable balasts on your softlights, right? :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG) PLEASE!!!

If you make them in a fresnell then that will be my shadow creator and I'll hve a
100% COOL LIGHTS personal kit! Next you'll have to make CL shipping cases!
 
USLatinContent said:
but first you'll get the dimmable balasts on your softlights, right? :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG) PLEASE!!!

If you make them in a fresnell then that will be my shadow creator and I'll hve a
100% COOL LIGHTS personal kit! Next you'll have to make CL shipping cases!
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Oh! Too much stuff to do for one person. I'm going to have to hire some more people.

I left you a message Roberto in answer to your PM request...
 
miracom said:
Oh! Too much stuff to do for one person. I'm going to have to hire some more people.
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Hey, maybe you should, it comes a time in the life of a good company...
If you can provide like Shawn said "80% of an HMI" then you'll have a
swarm of orders for those, and the dimmable lights you already make
are going to be a hughe hit if you can make them for the numbers you
are considering. And for a bit less... HUGHE! You'll probably get an article
on this forum.

I replied to your PM already, but what do you think would be an aprocimation
of your release dates for the "HMI80s" :happy: ?
 
Okay, so I got it in and had some time to play with the Alzo light. I shot a test of it next to other lights. Go here to read that http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=86587

Now as for the Alzo, I bought the bulb and ballast kit. I really like it. It doesn't work in a Chimera mogul lantern (with adapter for e27), i don't know why. The ballast is totally silent, I can't hear anything with my ears, even right next to them. I took this thing outside and dang, it throws a ton of light! The light indoors and out is very pleasing. I don't mind that it's only 5200k, because then I balance for daylight and the light gives me a warmer look, it's very pleasing. I turned on a PD170 and ran the shutter up really high and saw no flicker at all. I really like this Alzo and plan on getting at least 2 more once I have more money.
 
Thank you for the test! After looking at those what would you rte the light's output at? It seems it might be below 750w but not far from it.
It is great to hear from someone that the ballast is totally quiet.
I'll post about finish and use regarding the fixture and other components when I get the light since I ordered an 800 with barn-doors soft-box honeycomb and stand
 
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