AF-100 Wishlist/Suggestion Discussion Thread

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Isaac_Brody said:
ZZZZZzzz...BlahblahblahP2...BlahblahblahP2...

Sorry, somebody had to do it. :)
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Yes, I know I know... Breaking up is hard to do... I'd still rather be rolling on P2 than an SD card 80% of the time. But when I am running around the bush in Africa, or in Glacier Park, size and weight become important. I'd love to have my cake and eat it too...
 
Bassman2003 said:
If long GOP is so bad, why is Panasonic using it?
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Long GOP isn't inherently bad. It can be fine in an acquisition codec, and it's obviously been proven in delivery codecs (e.g., any DVD or Blu-ray you've seen). But it just might not always be appropriate for editing. Different steps of the video process have different needs.
 
robertrogoz said:
Entirely untrue- even JVC was recommending them as the card of your choice for HM series.
I also had Sandisc Extreme III skip recording frames and froze during the recording- my luck the rest of the footage was not lost.
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Every report I've heard on this forum about a card failing has been a Transcend or sketchier.

Anyway, one thing I do is buy a lot of cards in a smaller size. I kind of feel like the smaller cards are less vulnerable to corruption, and also you've split your data up...which, while in theory increasing the chances something could go wrong (but again not if smaller cards are less prone to corruption...which again, is just something I feel is true but with no technical specifics to back it up) you are also minimizing the damage if something goes wrong...losing 20 minutes of footage instead of 80. We always try to dump cards ASAP on set as well, and using multiple small cards keeps those dump times down and lets us keep shooting, which means we can check for corruption before we wrap that day. We do this with P2 as well. If all your footage is on one card and that card snaps in half in your camera bag, you're gonna be in for a bad day.
 
Ben_B said:
Transcend is not a reputable brand.
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They are a manufacturer, not a brand.

According to Wikipedia, in 2007, Transcend was the third largest manufacturer in the world of USB flash drives, was the first company in the world to offer a lifetime warranty on all of its memory modules, and the first Taiwanese memory module manufacturer to receive ISO 9001 certification.

So all I'm saying is: if they're not reputable, who is?
 
strangways said:
They are a manufacturer, not a brand.

According to Wikipedia, in 2007, Transcend was the third largest manufacturer in the world of USB flash drives, was the first company in the world to offer a lifetime warranty on all of its memory modules, and the first Taiwanese memory module manufacturer to receive ISO 9001 certification.

So all I'm saying is: if they're not reputable, who is?
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If you poke around the HMC150 forum, Transcend put out a bad batch or something a while ago, but for the most part they're actually pretty good. I have eight that get used pretty regularly and have never had an issue. A quick glance at Newegg shows some pretty high ratings for their SDHC and CF cards.
 
strangways said:
They are a manufacturer, not a brand.

According to Wikipedia, in 2007, Transcend was the third largest manufacturer in the world of USB flash drives, was the first company in the world to offer a lifetime warranty on all of its memory modules, and the first Taiwanese memory module manufacturer to receive ISO 9001 certification.

So all I'm saying is: if they're not reputable, who is?
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Panasonic.
 
Transcend is a good manufacturer, just make sure you get the good stuff. The 150x Class6 uses high quality SLC memory but the class 10 cards they have use MLC. The highest available capacity from all manufacturers is usually MLC, which is not as good.
 
I think the problem is that the GH1 doesn't like Transcend cards. I have not had 1 issue with PNY class 4 card and I've used them extensively for multiple applications. Because I lost a Sandisk class 6, 16 GB card on the first day that I used it, I ended up buying a class 6, 16 GB Transcend card and on the first real day that I used it, which was for an event, it would sometimes stop recording telling me that the card isn't fast enough. It was bad enough that I spent a long time deciding rather or not I should waste money and get the Sandisk card and then to loose it right away.
 
MLC cards are at least 2x less expensive but they are not very dependable for constant write speed. Especially because the design of SD cards is very simple and the small form factor does not even allow the use of some techniques. MLC has problems even with designs that have less restrictions, such as SSD storage for computers. You can do a test on a computer reader before using the card. The class 6 rating does not mean much by itself.
 
I think this all just confirms what I think of SD cards.

So based on word-of-mouth, Transcend cards are good, as long as you get their higher-end cards, and not one from a bad batch, and you don't use it in a specific camera that doesn't like them...

When was the last time you saw a card that clearly advertised whether it was SLC or MLC? Transcend has an impressively verbose 26 page datasheet on their class 10 SD cards, but I can't find any mention of whether it's SLC or MLC. The class 6 cards, however, clearly do state SLC on the webpage.

Panasonic cards ought to be reliable (and you could certainly complain to them if they didn't work in your Panasonic camera!) but does Panasonic actually manufacture their own memory cards? All the components inside them, including the flash memory and controller?
If not, the Panasonic card that came with your camera could work perfectly, but when you buy a second one from a retailer, it could have the same Panasonic sticker on it but be from an entirely different manufacturer, and not work in your specific camera.

How are customers supposed to know all of this and keep on top of all of it?
 
I tend to use either the SanDisk or the Panasonic, and yes we make our own memory, cards and all. But the Panasonics are not always available. I had a customer shoot some stuff on the 3D camera and one of the cards would not reliably mount, it was an off brand. I quickly moved the footage to a hard drive and then onto a SanDisk as Staples was out of the Panasonic. They did have another storebrand for about half the price of the SanDisk, but I know that all memory is not created equal and passed it by.

Buy a good brand and it should serve you well. Do not look at SD cards as a final resting spot for your footage it is not an archival medium.

Best,

Jan
 
strangways said:
How are customers supposed to know all of this and keep on top of all of it?
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The companies have to be competitive. In order to be competitive they have to sell lots of their cheap stuff. So, they don't advertise SLC, high reliability and industrial quality media much. The consumer thinks media is a commodity, so what is important is capacity/price. In pc storage we have lots of stuttering MLC SSD that cannot sustain data rates and quickly deteriorate under heavy use, high quality SLC is very rare, even today. The reviewers play the game also, everything is sold by a data rate spec that is far from the truth and all problems are discovered by the end users. Those who report the issues are rarely treated well, they are typically attacked and discouraged. It's not fun to have someone rain on your parade, especially if you just paid a lot of money on the product. People want to feel good about their purchase.

Perhaps there is market for pretested cards with guaranteed performance for a datarate at a premium. Testing can be automated and it would only add a few $ per card.

Not all problems of SD would be solved though. There are mechanical and electrical issues inherent to the design that can lead for loss of data, and sometimes, the camera design is responsible for the loss. For the same reason, I can guarantee performance and reliability over SATA but not over USB.
 
This is too funny. Everyone is complaining that quality and reliability are being sacrificed in the name of price on Panasonic's end, and then going out and buying the cheapest possible SD cards. Spend the money, get high-end Sandisk or Panasonic cards.
 
The fact that Jan is reading this is what makes all of this discourse worthwhile.

As far as my use of an SD-based camera is concerned, I would go out and buy Panasonic or Sandisk cards, but I'd still have to hope that even if I went to a major retailer, that I wouldn't get stuck with counterfeit cards.

Still, I'd rather have P2. Any P2 card will be more reliable than the best SD cards available.

Also, I have no doubt that we will hear cases on this message board and other places, of people complaining about Panasonic or Canon or Sony cameras being crap, because they used crap media in good cameras, or complaining about good media being crap, because they got counterfeit versions, either unknowingly, or through shopping eBay for the lowest possible price.
 
Great job, Jan! Looks like an exciting product! Here are my suggestions:

1. Zebra 1 = include 70% in adjustable range, plus large, adjustable "aperture" (over- and under-range).+
2. Zebra 2 = include 100% in adjustable range, plus large, adjustable "aperture" (over- and under-range).+
3. Frameline reticles: 16:9, 2:35, custom, plus 90% "safe action" for all, with center crosshair, plus, adjustable-percentage opacity, shaded out-of-frame area.
4. Menu-adjustable ancillary video output (HD-SDI BNC or HDMI) to display viewfinder output (e.g., reticle, zebra, menus).
5. Try to put the "standard three" switches in the "normal" ENG camera location (output, gain, white balance memory).
6. Please make sure that an AF Nikkor 14mm f/2.8D will actually clear the EVF when mounted.
7. In-camera SD downconvert out of a composite BNC would be handy.
8. It would be incredibly awesome if there were a standard Anton-Bauer Gold Mount option on the back of this camera (and the appropriate 14.4V voltage step-down, built-in, if required), so that my many $1,000s of bricks and chargers could be repurposed on this camera.
9. Please put STRAP hardware on the camera! This is VERY important to me! With a camera strap, you have BOTH hands free when carrying your gear. Without a camera strap, I can't re-po and carry my sticks and camera very easily (very important for guerilla shooting).
10. Please put a 1/4-20 female thread in the "SunGun" area of the handle!
11. I have no need for autofocus on this camera.*

+[Note that while waveform-style histogram overlays are nice (love them in your monitors), I still really like seeing zebra information in the EVF, since they tell you exactly what part of the picture is doing what. Remember that possibly a large portion of your potential customers for this product are used to traditional, shoulder-mount, broadcast ENG camera layouts and ergonomics, and will miss those features and design modes, if not observed to some degree in your "crossover" product. In other words, try to avoid, as best you can, "dumbing" things down too much, or makimg too many "EZ" modes and whatnot. Many of your potential end-users will be experienced operators and DPs, used to shooting with Varicams and F900s.]

*[While unnecessary during actual shooting (and not applicable to me, since I'll be using all manual-focus Nikon primes), some version of an "autofocus" feature, designed to be used as a "Panatape" style, focus-marking aid would actually be useful to some. This is possibly the only application where a touchscreen would actually be appropriate.]

Sorry if this is a wholly redundant post. . . too long a thread to read entire thing (I will, eventually) . . . Thank you!
 
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