I've seen loads of quality HMI's sell for severely cut prices on Craigslist LA. I drive from San Diego for the market sometimes. Some of the best deals I've seen included a 1.2k HMI with ballast for $800, a 2.5k with ballast for $600. The bigger units tend to sell for cheaper while the 15a-capable ones have more demand, you won't find Arri's that cheap though, but stuff like Strand or Desisti/Ianiro are commonly found for thousands less than buying elsewhere.
Advice purchasing HMI lights
- Thread starter David Seow
- Start date
Movie Mike
Member
I would definitely go for the used gear. Not only are they better made lights, but a 6k will kick your production values up to a whole new level that you can’t get out of 575s and 1200s. They are a pain to power, but you don’t have to tie-in to do so. Most locations will have 240V Range and Dryer Receptacles that you can use, and Honda is coming out with a new 10’000W portable generator - the EB10000. It is noisier than the EU6500is, but if you use a 84A Transformer/Distro that will compensate for voltage drop over a long cable run (like the 60A one built for the modified 7500W Honda EU6500is) you can place the generator around the corner of a building or operate it out of your grip truck where it won’t be heard.
Mike Morgan
Patryk_Rebisz
Veteran
I own 5 LTM HMIs: 2x 200w, 2x 575w, 1x 1.2kw - all bought used.
I was in the same boat as you at some point looking at all available options and settled on used LTMs because of smaller form factor then Arris and the price difference between used LTMs and new CoolLights. Richard of CoolLights post very frequently so i'm sure if you go that route you will experience great costumer service.
Things that i ran into when buying used:
200w
- stuck spot/flood knobs on 200w lights - had to grease up the screw inside
575w
- worn out knob on one light (the knob that keep it pointed horizontally) - had to replace it
- missing lenses - had to but new ones
- loud fan on the electronic ballast - replaced it with quiet one
1.2kw
- dirt and rust - after cleaning the head looks "like new"
- loud magnetic ballast - bought a used replacement (adding extra $400 to original price)
- significant paint chips on the outside of the ballast - repainted it
- worn out padding on the horizontal position knobs - had to replace those
- partially cut feeder cable to the head - replaced it so that it's not safety hazard
I was in the same boat as you at some point looking at all available options and settled on used LTMs because of smaller form factor then Arris and the price difference between used LTMs and new CoolLights. Richard of CoolLights post very frequently so i'm sure if you go that route you will experience great costumer service.
Things that i ran into when buying used:
200w
- stuck spot/flood knobs on 200w lights - had to grease up the screw inside
575w
- worn out knob on one light (the knob that keep it pointed horizontally) - had to replace it
- missing lenses - had to but new ones
- loud fan on the electronic ballast - replaced it with quiet one
1.2kw
- dirt and rust - after cleaning the head looks "like new"
- loud magnetic ballast - bought a used replacement (adding extra $400 to original price)
- significant paint chips on the outside of the ballast - repainted it
- worn out padding on the horizontal position knobs - had to replace those
- partially cut feeder cable to the head - replaced it so that it's not safety hazard
"But I do agree, Cool lights are terrible and NOT a good investment. You might as well buy a beat up truck painted new from the 80s, because it will only last you (if lucky) a few months.
First time I work with one, ballast decides to flip out and destroy a bulb. Expensive bulb."
I have a selection of different fixtures including Arris, Moles and Cool Lights. I can't speak directly to the Cool Lights HMIs quality, but I have purchased 3 fixtures from Cool Lights and they have delivered value, been of reasonable quality for an owner operator, and have always received SUPERIOR customer service. I have forwarded ideas and comments to Richard, and he always responds promptly, very promptly.
It is a pretty cheap shot to crap on Cool Lights products due to one bad experience, on a non-owned light, when you don't own any HMIs, and you can't supply any details so that the manufacturer who participates here can man up and defend his product in public. Most manufacturers would hide there tails under the circumstances. You may have all the experience in the world, but if you crap on somebody, give enough detail that they can defend themselves.
Peace
Grant
First time I work with one, ballast decides to flip out and destroy a bulb. Expensive bulb."
I have a selection of different fixtures including Arris, Moles and Cool Lights. I can't speak directly to the Cool Lights HMIs quality, but I have purchased 3 fixtures from Cool Lights and they have delivered value, been of reasonable quality for an owner operator, and have always received SUPERIOR customer service. I have forwarded ideas and comments to Richard, and he always responds promptly, very promptly.
It is a pretty cheap shot to crap on Cool Lights products due to one bad experience, on a non-owned light, when you don't own any HMIs, and you can't supply any details so that the manufacturer who participates here can man up and defend his product in public. Most manufacturers would hide there tails under the circumstances. You may have all the experience in the world, but if you crap on somebody, give enough detail that they can defend themselves.
Peace
Grant
paulears
Veteran
HMIs are really NOT the kind of lighting equipment people with no experience of a range of types should touch. Everything about them is a potential problem. Their one exceptional feature is light output. Probably 4 times that of the equivalent incandescent lamp. Downsides are complexity and reliability, dimming capability (either none or very limited) extreme temperatures and the potential for flicker.
Only yesterday I had one die on me during something important. A pop, then no light. Remove a brand new £80 lamp from it's box, wait ten minutes until it was cool enough to remove the old one with heat proof gloves - which are so thick, delicate re-lamping is pretty tricky. Then I discover the problem wasn't the lamp because the new one didn't ignite. Detailed inspection afterwards revealed rain had at some point entered the ballast and the transformer had been wet. After the water evaporated, probably when it was sitting unused, the copper coils started to corrode, and eventually they shorted, which was the pop heard. A new transformer is a major cost item, if I can actually get one and fit it myself - the option suggested is send it to the manufacturer for repair. Basically, the water damage could be worse than I suspect so the transformer may not be the only damaged part.
HMIs are very useful when you need lots of light from a small number of sources. I've just spent a huge amount of money replacing the dodgy one - I doubt I'll get the expenditure back quickly!
I'm 100% happy to use cheaper Chinese products and have quite a few genuine Arri Fresnels and some of the Chinese similar ones - The build quality difference is not a problem, and they pass a UK PAT test for electrical safety. However, I will not buy any of their HMIs, because the voltages inside the unit to strike the lamp are much higher, and I'm not convinced the standard is good enough. It probably is, but it worries me. Power consumption of discharge sources peaks on start up, so power supplies need to be capable of withstanding the peak. Here in the UK, I can power up 4 discharge 575W fixtures at the same time from a 16A source, but not a 13A source - it trips. Power them up one at a time it's fine. 1200W discharge fixtures take quite a bit more than that on their strike. This means proper power supply planning.
Restrike is dependent on the electronics being able to restart the lamp when the internal pressure is still high - kind of 'cleverer' electronics - or perhaps more expensive would be more accurate. Many of the Chinese fixtures cannot do reliable hot restarts, where the original big name brands can.
So for me - I'd suggest an alternative if you don't have a big budget and a big running budget - if you drop one taking it out of the van, it can be very expensive for a new lamp. You also need to record running time, so you can establish when to change lamps. It is not recommended to let them go on until they fail because they can explode and leave you with glass everywhere!
Only yesterday I had one die on me during something important. A pop, then no light. Remove a brand new £80 lamp from it's box, wait ten minutes until it was cool enough to remove the old one with heat proof gloves - which are so thick, delicate re-lamping is pretty tricky. Then I discover the problem wasn't the lamp because the new one didn't ignite. Detailed inspection afterwards revealed rain had at some point entered the ballast and the transformer had been wet. After the water evaporated, probably when it was sitting unused, the copper coils started to corrode, and eventually they shorted, which was the pop heard. A new transformer is a major cost item, if I can actually get one and fit it myself - the option suggested is send it to the manufacturer for repair. Basically, the water damage could be worse than I suspect so the transformer may not be the only damaged part.
HMIs are very useful when you need lots of light from a small number of sources. I've just spent a huge amount of money replacing the dodgy one - I doubt I'll get the expenditure back quickly!
I'm 100% happy to use cheaper Chinese products and have quite a few genuine Arri Fresnels and some of the Chinese similar ones - The build quality difference is not a problem, and they pass a UK PAT test for electrical safety. However, I will not buy any of their HMIs, because the voltages inside the unit to strike the lamp are much higher, and I'm not convinced the standard is good enough. It probably is, but it worries me. Power consumption of discharge sources peaks on start up, so power supplies need to be capable of withstanding the peak. Here in the UK, I can power up 4 discharge 575W fixtures at the same time from a 16A source, but not a 13A source - it trips. Power them up one at a time it's fine. 1200W discharge fixtures take quite a bit more than that on their strike. This means proper power supply planning.
Restrike is dependent on the electronics being able to restart the lamp when the internal pressure is still high - kind of 'cleverer' electronics - or perhaps more expensive would be more accurate. Many of the Chinese fixtures cannot do reliable hot restarts, where the original big name brands can.
So for me - I'd suggest an alternative if you don't have a big budget and a big running budget - if you drop one taking it out of the van, it can be very expensive for a new lamp. You also need to record running time, so you can establish when to change lamps. It is not recommended to let them go on until they fail because they can explode and leave you with glass everywhere!
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
Amen to that Paul.
I only bring HMIs in, when I really really have no other option.
I had so much trouble and downtime with them (no mater what brand and age) I can't wait til those new plasma light show up at my rental houses, so I can bury that HMI stuff for ever.
Regarding the - so called - "industry standard", there is no such thing.
Some guys just made that up, it's a myth.
A lot of well respected DPs have no problem to trow gear from Home Depot in the mix, others build their own lighting systems, cause they are not happy, with what the market supplies.
Frank
Movie Mike
Member
Paulears is right that HMIs are not for beginners – especially to purchase. Because of the constant improvement in HMI technology there are several versions of HMI ballasts available and if you are not careful how you power them you can get stuck. In ballast design you have a choice between magnetic and electronic ballasts; and to complicate matters even more, you have a choice between Power Factor Corrected electronic ballasts and non-Power Factor Corrected electronic ballasts. The variety of HMI ballasts leads to a lot of confusion. For instance, Paulears is confusing several issues: the higher “Apparent Power” of Electronic HMI ballasts and the higher striking current of Magnetic HMI ballasts.
Magnetic ballasts draw more current during the striking phase and then they “settle down” and require less power to maintain the HMI Arc. For this reason, as Paulears suggests, you can’t load a wall circuit or a generator to full capacity with HMIs with magnetic ballasts because you must leave “head room” for their higher front end striking load. By contrast, an electronic ballast “ramps up.” That is, its’ current draw gradually builds until it “tops off.” But, unless the ballast is Power Factor Corrected (PFC), an electronic ballast will draw more current than a magnetic ballast of the same wattage. Why ballasts of the same wattage will draw appreciably different current has to do with the Power Factor of the ballast.
Since Power Factor Correction (PFC) is not mandatory in this country as it is in Europe, you will encounter many non- PFC HMI, Kino, CFL, & LED power supplies. And since, the adverse effects caused by a poor Power Factor go beyond an inefficient use of power, it is well worth understanding Power Factor and why it should be corrected. Besides, it explains how the new Arri 1800W ballast is able to operate on a 20A circuit and why it is so much more expensive than other electronic ballasts.
If you really want to learn about HMIs I would recommend the just released 4th Edition of Harry Box’s “Set Lighting Technician’s Handbook.” If you can’t afford the book (it’s not cheap), Harry Box has put together a free companion website called "Box Book Extras." The website includes the source material used for the handbook, articles by Harry Box published in other periodicals, related websites, a list of production oriented i-phone apps, as well as more in depth discussion of topics touched upon in the handbook. You can log onto the site at http://booksite.focalpress.com/box/setlighting/ with the pass-code "setlighting."
Mike Morgan
I've owned 3 1k fresnels and a few others way back, I can't say for the price its terrible (for the tungstens), but they still don't last as long as they want them to. I treated the lights well, and they started finally breaking down after about a year and a half after I bought them and even the bulbs dont last as long as they should.
(1k bulb in there lasted with constant use a few months, on the Mole... Bought them about 6-7 months ago, still havent changed it)
They would still work well, but some knobs were coming loose, metal bending, etc. But I also did have some other ones that did last a while, I still have them sitting in the garage gathering dust, and I'm sure they would still work. But think of this, you ARE paying a little under half of what you'd pay for a good tungsten kit, so if you can deal with the tradeoff then its fine.
I don't mean to "crap" out on anyone, you just have to imagine this. Should I buy a used brand hmi that will last me maybe another 15 years with good care and could even be rented out, or get a new off-brand HMI that will last under 5 years with minimal use.
Don't get me wrong, Cool Lights make some good stuff, but as he said, its not meant to be rental equipment. I just like my stuff to last me decades if possible.
I say the same thing when people ask me to compare stabilizers. I've pushed people away from Flycams, at first they were skeptical when I say they should consider renting or just saving up for at least a glidecam, but they thank me later for saving them money.
And again, Don't get me wrong. Flycams are alright for students and what not, maybe for hobbyist and youtubers.
Main reason why I say this Is because I really hate stepping on set when theres ALOT of money involved, and seeing off brand equipment, and we're sitting there wasting time while someone is taking ages to balance a flycam, or dealing with an LED light that has a weird color temperature, etc. I can deal with people handing me offbrand lights on set, I mean they're paying me, and its a heck of a lot better than sitting around doing nothing, but I'd never buy one. Just... don't you think its better for me to be helping the other grips set up instead of trying to re-wire lights? In the end, doing it the old school way saves you money if you think about it.
Spending that little extra on brand equipment can save the day. Remember Tiffen did all the scientific research to get a perfect balance, Arri and Mole did all the scientific research to get perfect airflow. 99% of off-brand equipment manufacturers just copied everything.
I can't say the same thing about CoolLights, because maybe they DID do research, as I've seen they make the most offbrand equipment i've seen.
-----
And just see what Paulears says, HMIs aren't toys. Most people who are looking to buy cheap HMIs should just turn around, they are VERY delicate (Very delicate = easy to break). I've had many chances of purchasing HMIs, but for now I just avoid that and let rental houses deal with them. I don't want to buy an electronic ballast to just have it flip out and die the next day, and be out 5 grand!
I'll say it once, I'll say it again. Rent! Rent! Rent!
David W. Jones
Veteran
For those of you that have never used HMI's before and are thinking about purchasing used units, be aware that shipping will be fairly expensive and should be factored into the purchase price. You could expect to add anywhere from $200 to $800 in shipping charges. The ballasts are heavy suckers, especially on the larger wattage lights.
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
When did you buy these 1K fresnels from us? And under what name? And did you report any of these issues to us?
Paul Hudson
Vacuum Tube Member
I have found that we seldom use anything but HMI's and Kinoflo's anymore, either for ourself our in our rental inventory. It seems that most the high end shooters are sensitive to the fact that sensors look better when lit with daylight sources.
For sure day light sources are more expensive and complicated and you would be advised to know how to handle these instruments before using. If you own these sources you should also be on good terms with a quality repair shop. There are a few that I recommend highly GFS lighting and Galaxy lighting. Both are in Southern CA. Both are fair and fast in their repairs.
Remember electronic ballasts are the standard now days but they are very fragil so they do require service often. For this reason we almost always keep a safety backup magnetic ballast for every head. Yeah, it gets expensive.
For sure day light sources are more expensive and complicated and you would be advised to know how to handle these instruments before using. If you own these sources you should also be on good terms with a quality repair shop. There are a few that I recommend highly GFS lighting and Galaxy lighting. Both are in Southern CA. Both are fair and fast in their repairs.
Remember electronic ballasts are the standard now days but they are very fragil so they do require service often. For this reason we almost always keep a safety backup magnetic ballast for every head. Yeah, it gets expensive.
I never implied that there isn't better equipment than Cool Lights. There is. But my point was that if you are going to crap on them, and they are trying to get info on what went wrong or to remedy the situation, you should be willing to supply some details and not deal in innuendo. You are obviously an opinionated person, as many here tend to be; no problem there. I just think you should offer up more specifics and or deal directly with Richard since he is asking you for specific info about your (bad) experiences. I think in a public forum, you owe him that lest you sound like you have a hidden agenda.
Ya, if I was buying rental gear, I'd probably not buy Cool Lights, but I own all my own gear and since I am distant enough from major rental markets renting just doesn't work. Can you imagine shipping cost both directions for a HMI for a small corporate shoot? I buy the best gear I can afford and take care of it, so maybe a step down from top-o-the-line works for me. Moles seem to be the most durable, but my Arris have served me well and when I need it, it is there on no notice. So when I think about major purchases, I do my research, usually spend a little more than I want to, but always have to consider my ROI since my investment in my business is always at risk.
Grant
It was a while back ago, I never bothered fixing them honestly. It was just wear/tear. I bought them from a friend who never used them.
And with the HMIs, the one I had the closest inspection to was the one that killed the bulb, we were pretty rushed that day so I couldnt really sit down and look at it and try to troubleshoot, but it worked for a few hours then it wouldn't strike.
Some other 1200s I think I heard it had some wiring issue, but I'm not sure.
I know I know, problem is that it was a while back ago, and I'm not even in touch with the DP anymore (probably moved or something). Of course if you're far away from a rental house, and thats your only option, its not a BAD option. Heck I'd buy Cool lights If I was in your position, heck I'd buy ALL of them
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
So basically more vagaries and bashing. I ask for facts and you can never supply it. "Maybe" this, and "I think" that. Its called rumor mongering if you can't supply details. Furthermore I see no emails from anyone with last name Casco nor anyone in our customer database with that name. So you decided not to get them fixed or contact us, but you just thought you'd pop in and tell everyone about it.
We see things come back in good condition and we see things come back in bad condition when we are called on to service something we sold. Treat things well and they work, treat them bad and they may not. That's not just with our products its with every product.
Every scrupulous rental agency has a technician. His job is to check things out when they come back from rentals, make sure they work, repair any damage or missing parts, make adjustments and in general make sure its like it should be for the next person that rents. This person doesn't sit around on their hands, they have plenty to do because people that rent mistreat products, and that's well known. Small companies without the resources have no technician and they expect the place they bought it from to be their technician effectively. We see it all the time, stuff comes in completely beat up and they expect us to salvage it from what someone they loaned it to did.
In general there are two types of fresnels. The pressed metal, steel type and the ones that use aluminum extrusions. I often see people that rent things out saying the aluminum types aren't as tough. Of course they're not, aluminum vs. steel, that should be obvious to anyone with half a brain. That goes for Arri as well as anything from China known as "As Arri" on eBay. Ours are made of aluminum too. Its a philosophy and a design decision to use aluminum rather than steel. We chose aluminum for many reasons not the least of which it yields a better looking, more streamlined and lighter product. AND IT IS NOT DESIGNED FOR RENTALS. If you're using it in rental markets, get your own technician and let them keep busy keeping the products up from how your customers treat them while out on loan.
In any case, your stories are all anecdotal because you haven't supplied any details whatsoever when questioned but you want to keep bashing here, adding more each time to try and boost whatever your agenda is. I would ask you to stop now, talking about our products if you can't supply details.
RyanT
Veteran
I'm not entirely sure why you get in such heated conversations with people who say they have used your products before Richard. Instead of claiming they have a hidden agenda and telling them they need to stop talking about your product, maybe you can try and learn from them and heck, maybe you can improve your product from their experiences, however vague they may be. We're the guys out there every day using all this different lighting gear and we maybe we see some things that you missed.
I understand you probably spend a lot of time trying to make Cool Lights as great of a product as possible while still keeping it affordable for the owner operators, but you're not going to get anymore business by squashing the few people who don't have good things to say about your product. Listen to them, learn from them, and if you can't just stand by your product and leave it at that. They'll either come to their senses or they'll look like a fool and your job will be done.
With that being said, you never really responded to my previous post. Are you planning on making a joker style fixture with a variety of attachments? Like I said before, there's absolutely no one else doing what K5600 is.
I understand you probably spend a lot of time trying to make Cool Lights as great of a product as possible while still keeping it affordable for the owner operators, but you're not going to get anymore business by squashing the few people who don't have good things to say about your product. Listen to them, learn from them, and if you can't just stand by your product and leave it at that. They'll either come to their senses or they'll look like a fool and your job will be done.
With that being said, you never really responded to my previous post. Are you planning on making a joker style fixture with a variety of attachments? Like I said before, there's absolutely no one else doing what K5600 is.
I’m no fanboy of anyone. I do like Cool Lights products for the reasons previously mentioned. Cool Lights has been singled out here and the owner has personally asked for detail to defend his company, and if there is a problem with his products, to address the issues. Here is a summary of the comments regarding his products:
“But I do agree, Cool lights are terrible and NOT a good investment. You might as well buy a beat up truck painted new from the 80s, because it will only last you (if lucky) a few months.
First time I work with one, ballast decides to flip out and destroy a bulb. Expensive bulb.”
“I dont own any HMIs so I can't point out exactly what it is”
“Maybe that one occasion was that one time, I've just heard bad mojo on them that they don't last very long. We had a 1200w HMI I think”
“I've owned 3 1k fresnels and a few others way back” Follows with a decent description of issues.
“It was a while back ago, I never bothered fixing them honestly. It was”just wear/tear. I bought them from a friend who never used them.
And with the HMIs, the one I had the closest inspection to was the one that killed the bulb, we were pretty rushed that day so I couldnt really sit down and look at it and try to troubleshoot, but it worked for a few hours then it wouldn't strike”.
“Some other 1200s I think I heard it had some wiring issue, but I'm not sure”
“I know I know, problem is that it was a while back ago, and I'm not even in touch with the DP anymore”
After each and every comment, Richard asked for more info, and received zero response with regard to specifics. Richard has no record of RickyC ever owning anything Cool Light. I assume he is a grip with strong opinions and a poor memory. Maybe his comments are valid, but seem much more anecdotal and hersay to me.
These negative comments will now show up on a Google search. It’s on the internet so it must be true right?
Ryan, I am sure that if some guy trashed you on the internet about work you did long ago, and you had no record of him working for you, you might also want to defend yourself. You might even be pissed off since those comments might follow you around for a long time and come up when selling your next job. DVXuser will only be as good as the quality of the content. Strong opinions are fine, I voice them myself. But if you trash somebody or product with vague recollections or what somebody said including heresay about bad mojo, you should at least be able to give some detail.
Grant
“But I do agree, Cool lights are terrible and NOT a good investment. You might as well buy a beat up truck painted new from the 80s, because it will only last you (if lucky) a few months.
First time I work with one, ballast decides to flip out and destroy a bulb. Expensive bulb.”
“I dont own any HMIs so I can't point out exactly what it is”
“Maybe that one occasion was that one time, I've just heard bad mojo on them that they don't last very long. We had a 1200w HMI I think”
“I've owned 3 1k fresnels and a few others way back” Follows with a decent description of issues.
“It was a while back ago, I never bothered fixing them honestly. It was”just wear/tear. I bought them from a friend who never used them.
And with the HMIs, the one I had the closest inspection to was the one that killed the bulb, we were pretty rushed that day so I couldnt really sit down and look at it and try to troubleshoot, but it worked for a few hours then it wouldn't strike”.
“Some other 1200s I think I heard it had some wiring issue, but I'm not sure”
“I know I know, problem is that it was a while back ago, and I'm not even in touch with the DP anymore”
After each and every comment, Richard asked for more info, and received zero response with regard to specifics. Richard has no record of RickyC ever owning anything Cool Light. I assume he is a grip with strong opinions and a poor memory. Maybe his comments are valid, but seem much more anecdotal and hersay to me.
These negative comments will now show up on a Google search. It’s on the internet so it must be true right?
Ryan, I am sure that if some guy trashed you on the internet about work you did long ago, and you had no record of him working for you, you might also want to defend yourself. You might even be pissed off since those comments might follow you around for a long time and come up when selling your next job. DVXuser will only be as good as the quality of the content. Strong opinions are fine, I voice them myself. But if you trash somebody or product with vague recollections or what somebody said including heresay about bad mojo, you should at least be able to give some detail.
Grant
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
I think if you go back you will see I was professional and patient up to the last time. Each time he couldn't answer any of my questions but came back with more slanderous or inflammatory comments. At some point you just have to see that someone is wasting your time. I asked for pretty much the same information that any other business owner would want to know if he couldn't identify the person as a customer.
EDIT: I see ggrantly made a post just before me and did a good job of quoting what was extremely frustrating about trying to get anything from this guy. Thanks for that--pretty much sums it up.
Particularly necessary to know is the name of the customer that bought it or at least when so we can identify which generation of product. In fact, we have made improvements in each generation of many of our products so that's necessary information to know. The fresnel we sell today is quite a bit different in many ways than the original ones from back at the beginning of 2008 when we started selling various fresnels, tungsten and CDM/HMI. Another phenomenon which I am guarding against is the person that buys these type units on Ebay and then claims them as Cool Lights for purposes of getting free parts or fixing them. That does happen. We don't sell on Ebay, don't have any affilliation with anyone that does and if it doesn't say Cool Lights on it, its not our product nor do we support it. I saw someone saying he had Cool Lights fresnels just the other day on another board. He even put a link to a Youtube review video he did. They clearly weren't our product: blue front and back, no Cool Lights logo, none of the special hardware we put on the yoke, no positioning handle on the back of fresnel (so you don't burn your hands when trying to set angle of a hot fresnel), different inline switch and power plug, etc. It was probably a Jietu model which is an entirely different model than ours and a competitor.
As far as a 400/575w par, we have gone down that road a few times and never finished the product. Frankly, LEDs happened in a way that I didn't expect and that became a great time vacuum where we ended up spending most of our resources on production of LEDs to meet the demand. Its been nice though because its allowed us to do many things I didn't think we'd be able to do for quite a while. When that product first came out, it was in my mind meant for people that were just concentrated on battery use of a fixture (people spelunking in caves, filming in cars, nocturnal wildlife observation, etc.). These are all uses that I wouldn't see the first generation LEDs lower CRI as being an issue. I never thought that people that just needed lighting for interviews or green screens would turn to LEDs even though the CRI was lower than we were capable of doing for HMIs or fluorescents, but they did and its been quite a popular product. Next generation LEDs will have different target customers, uses and higher CRI, but that's another story.
All that is to say, I only sporadically worked on new HMI development from about late 2008 to now. I do plan to get back into the par and other CDM/HMI developments I have wanted to do for quite some time. I had a 575w par we found in 2007 that was meant for car and trade show lighting. We called it the "Sportlight" par and talked about it here. This was that model:
It was noisy with fan on ballast though so that was going to have to change as issue #1. Also, the more I thought about it, there were a number of things not ideal about the fixture itself. It was a little bigger than I wanted it to be. Furthermore, you couldn't take the reflector head off and use the fixture with just the bulb so you could have different kinds of accessories like you are talking about: that's a key feature to make those accessories possible. The position of the yoke was all wrong and would have to be moved back from the reflector to allow you to do this.
So I threw that par away and we were going to start from scratch with a new design and even hired an autocad guy. Then we introduced the LED 600 and that signaled the end of my working on it for a while.
I recently took it back up again and have been working on it a little at a time between other projects. We have a great (and super quiet) cold start 400/575 ballast (non-dimmable) that we'll use on that and a (1000w size) fresnel in the beginning then make hot restart versions of the par later. Just a question of getting the design finished of par, making molds and finally prototype then production versions. All of this takes longer than it should and its worse if you only have 1 person working on it.
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Look, I don't mean to bash anyone. I'm just posting my opinions, from my experiences. I've bought and sold a lot of equipment over these years I've been doing this, and I don't bother keeping serial numbers and records of everything I buy, considering a list of a whole grip package would be longer than a dictionary.
I never sent an email to support because, as I said, I never bothered fixing them. I had a lot of gear I had to replace at the time, and only took the time to fix a few things. Heck I still have a Matthews hi-hi roller missing a bunch of parts, but I dont want to bother Matthews because I know its at least 100$ of parts, and I dont NEED another hi-hi roller. And at that time I knew replacing all those parts for the light would cost at least that much, but I never dealt with it because I didnt need more lights
Although I wish I had more information about the lights, I didn't specifically own those HMIs. Maybe whoever did send a message to support, I don't know. Its been too many people and too long ago
I'm not saying Cool Lights are trash, I never said that. I'm just saying for the money you could be using you could try finding something else used. I have positive and negative experiences about ALL companies. I even sometimes want to run and slap whoever designed the mole, kino and even arri. As Ryan said, we use the equipment all the time. Its one thing to be looking at a warehouse of brand new fixtures, its another thing to hope for the best when someone hands you a 20 year old light. And that happens all the time on set, we're handed equipment that you pray strikes.
If people want to buy CoolLights, I don't mind. A lot of times I've recommended people your way! A lot of times I've not recommended people a specific Mole light. Every piece of equipment is different, I think in your line of products some LED fixtures work great for some occasions, and other occasions other lights work better or worse. I'm just saying that in the line of HMIs, going with a used K5600 or other brand might be the best way to go, for the original posters position since being away from a rental house is his option.
I apologize if theres anything that has offended anyone elses opinion, I'm just putting as much as I can from my experience with these lights. Yes I'm just a grip, many times I haven't touched the actual cool lights, just heard things from the guys that DO set up the lights. Positive and negative things, as with any other equipment.
Honestly for me, I usually can care less about what type of equipment there is on set. As long as it does all 3 of these:
1. Work as its meant to
2. Not make life difficult on anyone (i.e. take us longer to set up because of quirks)
3. Stay working
Complete all those 3, I'm happy. If it mis-fires, if it needs to be rewired or we have to pause everything while someone runs and gets a replacement, I'm sad
And when I'm purchasing equipment, it should:
1. Last a good amount of time
2. Work as its suppose to
3. Have a close manufacturer, something like LA for repairs and what-not
4. Have rental opportunities, unfortunately brands are what people want, and what they pay for
I gave up with off-brand and cheaper brand lights long ago, when I got a look from a pretty big DP from NY about owning some Lowel lights. For me its a lot better to own the real deal, but sometimes that costs much more (oh god much more) and to those that do hobbies, companies like Lowel, Manfrotto and Cool Lights are the way to go
If you want me to stop commenting about your products, I'll do as told and respect your wishes.
I never sent an email to support because, as I said, I never bothered fixing them. I had a lot of gear I had to replace at the time, and only took the time to fix a few things. Heck I still have a Matthews hi-hi roller missing a bunch of parts, but I dont want to bother Matthews because I know its at least 100$ of parts, and I dont NEED another hi-hi roller. And at that time I knew replacing all those parts for the light would cost at least that much, but I never dealt with it because I didnt need more lights
Although I wish I had more information about the lights, I didn't specifically own those HMIs. Maybe whoever did send a message to support, I don't know. Its been too many people and too long ago
I'm not saying Cool Lights are trash, I never said that. I'm just saying for the money you could be using you could try finding something else used. I have positive and negative experiences about ALL companies. I even sometimes want to run and slap whoever designed the mole, kino and even arri. As Ryan said, we use the equipment all the time. Its one thing to be looking at a warehouse of brand new fixtures, its another thing to hope for the best when someone hands you a 20 year old light. And that happens all the time on set, we're handed equipment that you pray strikes.
If people want to buy CoolLights, I don't mind. A lot of times I've recommended people your way! A lot of times I've not recommended people a specific Mole light. Every piece of equipment is different, I think in your line of products some LED fixtures work great for some occasions, and other occasions other lights work better or worse. I'm just saying that in the line of HMIs, going with a used K5600 or other brand might be the best way to go, for the original posters position since being away from a rental house is his option.
I apologize if theres anything that has offended anyone elses opinion, I'm just putting as much as I can from my experience with these lights. Yes I'm just a grip, many times I haven't touched the actual cool lights, just heard things from the guys that DO set up the lights. Positive and negative things, as with any other equipment.
Honestly for me, I usually can care less about what type of equipment there is on set. As long as it does all 3 of these:
1. Work as its meant to
2. Not make life difficult on anyone (i.e. take us longer to set up because of quirks)
3. Stay working
Complete all those 3, I'm happy. If it mis-fires, if it needs to be rewired or we have to pause everything while someone runs and gets a replacement, I'm sad
And when I'm purchasing equipment, it should:
1. Last a good amount of time
2. Work as its suppose to
3. Have a close manufacturer, something like LA for repairs and what-not
4. Have rental opportunities, unfortunately brands are what people want, and what they pay for
I gave up with off-brand and cheaper brand lights long ago, when I got a look from a pretty big DP from NY about owning some Lowel lights. For me its a lot better to own the real deal, but sometimes that costs much more (oh god much more) and to those that do hobbies, companies like Lowel, Manfrotto and Cool Lights are the way to go
If you want me to stop commenting about your products, I'll do as told and respect your wishes.
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Paul Hudson
Vacuum Tube Member
Look, I don't own any Cool Lights but I hav used them. To be sure they are not built like an Arri or LTM but their build quality is not bad, at all. IMHO dollar for dollar Coollight is the best bargain out there.