advice for lighting moods...
- Thread starter poetic
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filmat11
Well-known member
De- saturated colors in post, and the feeling of loneliness comes to mind...What does that have to do with lights..Quite a bit actually....
Since nobody else responded, and my gig canceled today because of weather, I thought I might give you my two cents.
Set decoration or the lack of it, can also aid in your melancholy feelings.
Direct, Overhead lighting, depending on the fixture, can create dark shadows under the eyes,nose and chin. A slight green(on purpose) color shift , shows off the life zapping forces of being in an office all day, and an overcast day can offer the general malaise often seen ,to further add to depression.The use of longer takes, which demonstrate time passage, or the lack of it, during a long,boring take. Basically life without color,contrast , depth and the absence of time--or showing that time passage can be thoughtful,emotionless or exasperating.
As your character or story developes, you can increase color saturation, the brightness of lights,use more color, intensify light sources and add more cuts, rather than longer more boring takes. This would lend a hand in/to purpose of your character, more detail shots, objects of interest, providing clarity, and an increased heartbeat to your actor and audience.
I would need more info about your locations to answer your specific lighting needs. There are many , many ways to approach this. You can use nothing but practicals, then depend on more daylight.. You can start the other way too, and then bring more light to the set as your actors feelings of melancholy dissapate... Chinese lanterns provide nice light, but depending on where,when and how they are used and placed, I can give you several looks.
Camera placement is important for this story telling as well, low angles, high angles, wide shots..ect Your camera's placement and lens choice are of
major importance for establishing the feeling as well ....Good luck....
Since nobody else responded, and my gig canceled today because of weather, I thought I might give you my two cents.
Set decoration or the lack of it, can also aid in your melancholy feelings.
Direct, Overhead lighting, depending on the fixture, can create dark shadows under the eyes,nose and chin. A slight green(on purpose) color shift , shows off the life zapping forces of being in an office all day, and an overcast day can offer the general malaise often seen ,to further add to depression.The use of longer takes, which demonstrate time passage, or the lack of it, during a long,boring take. Basically life without color,contrast , depth and the absence of time--or showing that time passage can be thoughtful,emotionless or exasperating.
As your character or story developes, you can increase color saturation, the brightness of lights,use more color, intensify light sources and add more cuts, rather than longer more boring takes. This would lend a hand in/to purpose of your character, more detail shots, objects of interest, providing clarity, and an increased heartbeat to your actor and audience.
I would need more info about your locations to answer your specific lighting needs. There are many , many ways to approach this. You can use nothing but practicals, then depend on more daylight.. You can start the other way too, and then bring more light to the set as your actors feelings of melancholy dissapate... Chinese lanterns provide nice light, but depending on where,when and how they are used and placed, I can give you several looks.
Camera placement is important for this story telling as well, low angles, high angles, wide shots..ect Your camera's placement and lens choice are of
major importance for establishing the feeling as well ....Good luck....
Hey filmat11 thanks for responding I apreciate it. Those are all great sugestions. I guess I am looking for actuall kinds of lights so I'll try to be more specific. I am shooting in a really dark restarurant with not very much ambient light. And I will be shooting at night for these shots. The restaraunt is small , the main diner area is an old trolley car.
If I am still not being specific enough, let me know and I'll continuely try to elaborate.
Thanks again for being the only one to respond.
If I am still not being specific enough, let me know and I'll continuely try to elaborate.
Thanks again for being the only one to respond.
jgastelb
Well-known member
filmat11 said:
This was a good suggestion though. I was thinking on how true this seems to work on the more slowly paced films. It brought to mind "Broken Flowers" in the scenes where Bill Murray is sitting in his house and nothing else is going on. You can really feel the empty environment around him. Try bringing those feelings with quick cuts and you definitely kill the mood.
Jgastelb
filmat11
Well-known member
Does this Trolley car have windows that face a busy street ? Are there tables or booths. What are the current lighting fixtures? Can you post a few photos before you start filming ? How high are the ceilings..7 ft,- 7.5 ft I'd imagine.. Will you be shooting in other parts of the restaurant as well ?
Sounds like a cool location...
The more you can tell us, the better we can help you.
Sounds like a cool location...
The more you can tell us, the better we can help you.
The diner is divided into two - upper and lower seating areas. The trolley car is the upper area. It is the original diner area. The cielings are rounded so pretty high in the middle. It has a row of tables going down each side. One side of tables faces large windows but the street is not busy, this diner is in a little canyon, and you can not see anything but a big hill. bordering the roof outside there is a red neon light that casts a nice redish glow on teh tables inside. The place has nice coloful moody lighting, but not much real light. On each of the tables there are antique lamps that are great for looks but very low wattage and light capabilities. Years after the trolley car part of the restaurant they put in the other ,larger level ( about double the the space of a trolley car) this area is brighter with much more light, but not nearly as interesting visually. with much higher cielings. I will try to out some pics up.
filmat11
Well-known member
Sounds very nice..Again, Without seeing photos it's a hard call to make, but my first impression is a few 150 watt fresnels for accent lights and perhaps a moody slash of light across the face, but nothing too noir in it's feel. Perhaps a chinese lantern to up the overall ambiance. Maybe a small 150 or 300 watt light outside the windows on the street side, placed low. Or even a 2k with lots of diffusion , MUCH further away from the windows. It would be nice to keep as much of the light from the sign as possible, without over riding it with several lights. My 2 cents till I see photos.
Edit: A kino or two to bring up ambiance as well may prove to be a good thing. For two shots and closeups, a 4'x4' piece of foam core with a string of christmas lights stapled to it would add a warm glow as well and provide an interesting eye light(s).
I'll hold any additional comments till I see photos...
Edit: A kino or two to bring up ambiance as well may prove to be a good thing. For two shots and closeups, a 4'x4' piece of foam core with a string of christmas lights stapled to it would add a warm glow as well and provide an interesting eye light(s).
I'll hold any additional comments till I see photos...
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HorseFilms
Look ma no hands
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Ok here aer a few pics. This is what I am thinking as of yet. One thirty inch nylon china ball with the "Y adapters" using possibly up to eight flourescent 3200 bulbs for ambient light and overall fill. One smaller china ball using one or two tungsten bulbs closer to subject. If it was worth it I could possibly rent a small kino flo but would want to keep the kino flo non- daylight and soft.
This is the area the main subject would be sitting.
This is the lower area.
And this is an aexterior shot.
This is the area the main subject would be sitting.
This is the lower area.
And this is an aexterior shot.
filmat11
Well-known member
Sorry Poetic, I have been on the road....
I like your location, it is very nice...
After re-reading your first description, I guess I need to ask, at what point are we in the script, with your actor's sense of well being...If anybody else is reading this, I suggest you read the description Poetic has given for what he is going after.....
Without knowing this, I can make several suggestions for this location, so I will share a few thoughts on what you might do.
OK, I'll assume a few things first...that your digital still camera recorded these scenes accurately, and without a long exposure.
Your photo of the room where your subject is sitting has alot of great character. I like the small practicals at each table and the lights on the back wall. It would be a shame to overpower all of this" ambiance "with several lights and instruments shooting into the room. I very much enjoy "the color balance" as shown, and believe you should keep this as the theme for this location...In other words..don't change a thing...
For a key light, I would just use either a 300 watt tungsten lamp, barn doored down to just light the face, with a piece of "OPAL" diffusion. I might even go so far as to just light the face from eyebrows to chin. This light should not be more than one stop brighter than the rest of the room. I would then perhaps use a 150 watt light, with "Opal" diffusion as well, barn doored down , so that the light must pass through an opening in the barndoors , no larger than a business card or just smaller. Keep this close to the camera as an eyelight when shooting close-ups. You might even need to scrim this, as this will only need to be used for tight closeups, to just add a small touch of fill light.
My first thought is to just want to use the table light as your key, and it is possible, and would cut down on lights in the room. I also really want to see the lights in the background in your shots. I might want to sit your actor one table away from the last row, to offer a nice distance from the background, so it's slightly out of focus. But if your story calls for her isolation, and feelings of loneliness, I would sit her further away from camera.
I do want to put a light outside the windows, but to determine what size, proves challenging to me because I tend to "size things up" when I'm on a location in person.. That said, Placing the 300 watt outside her window as a key, as I mentioned earlier, would be one way. Make sure the window treatments do not get any backlight from the key light, or it will be too obvious that your lighting the scene, as all or most of the windows should look similiar.
As I look at the photo again, and taking advantage of the arch over the dinning area, I see a sort of "Crown molding" around the edge, a couple of feet below the roof... You could measure this (accurately-side to side across the room) and place either a 2x4 or 2x6 board across this space, (over the tables and out of your frame). Clamp these to the moulding, and hang a 150 watt light for backlight. You can also slide these long boards forward or backward to support a chinese lantern, or use two boards to support backlight and one for a lantern. ( I would not use a bulb over 100 watts) just to bring up ambient light levels, should your video camera not be able to utilize the same amout of light as your still camera.
The bottom opening of your chinese lantern could supply added bounce light off of the dinner table to enhance your actors face as well.. This is presuming the lantern is quite close to your subject. You can hang additional chinese lanterns from the ceilings mouldings, but I would "Skirt" these with black duvetyne( black ,dense fabric) so the light is not spilling around everywhere, but just so the bottom 1/3 of the lantern is lighting other tables. You could also scrap this idea, and just use additional 150 or 300 watt tungstens, scrimed and barndoored down for edge,fill and slashes of light on other actors, chairs, windows and the waiter...
I like to observe other ways light can be introduced to a scene as well. A brief splash of light by a passing car, a door opening and bringing up light levels for a moment, a reflection from chrome or a mirror passing through your scene.
A car pulling up outside the window may provide a moment of interesting light from it's head lights, perhaps this could also indicate the arrival of your actors guest, unless she is suppose to be there alone of course...
Good luck...
,EDIT, you will not be able to use the overhead boards in your wide shot, but could be "sneaked in" for medium shots and close ups.
I like your location, it is very nice...
After re-reading your first description, I guess I need to ask, at what point are we in the script, with your actor's sense of well being...If anybody else is reading this, I suggest you read the description Poetic has given for what he is going after.....
Without knowing this, I can make several suggestions for this location, so I will share a few thoughts on what you might do.
OK, I'll assume a few things first...that your digital still camera recorded these scenes accurately, and without a long exposure.
Your photo of the room where your subject is sitting has alot of great character. I like the small practicals at each table and the lights on the back wall. It would be a shame to overpower all of this" ambiance "with several lights and instruments shooting into the room. I very much enjoy "the color balance" as shown, and believe you should keep this as the theme for this location...In other words..don't change a thing...
For a key light, I would just use either a 300 watt tungsten lamp, barn doored down to just light the face, with a piece of "OPAL" diffusion. I might even go so far as to just light the face from eyebrows to chin. This light should not be more than one stop brighter than the rest of the room. I would then perhaps use a 150 watt light, with "Opal" diffusion as well, barn doored down , so that the light must pass through an opening in the barndoors , no larger than a business card or just smaller. Keep this close to the camera as an eyelight when shooting close-ups. You might even need to scrim this, as this will only need to be used for tight closeups, to just add a small touch of fill light.
My first thought is to just want to use the table light as your key, and it is possible, and would cut down on lights in the room. I also really want to see the lights in the background in your shots. I might want to sit your actor one table away from the last row, to offer a nice distance from the background, so it's slightly out of focus. But if your story calls for her isolation, and feelings of loneliness, I would sit her further away from camera.
I do want to put a light outside the windows, but to determine what size, proves challenging to me because I tend to "size things up" when I'm on a location in person.. That said, Placing the 300 watt outside her window as a key, as I mentioned earlier, would be one way. Make sure the window treatments do not get any backlight from the key light, or it will be too obvious that your lighting the scene, as all or most of the windows should look similiar.
As I look at the photo again, and taking advantage of the arch over the dinning area, I see a sort of "Crown molding" around the edge, a couple of feet below the roof... You could measure this (accurately-side to side across the room) and place either a 2x4 or 2x6 board across this space, (over the tables and out of your frame). Clamp these to the moulding, and hang a 150 watt light for backlight. You can also slide these long boards forward or backward to support a chinese lantern, or use two boards to support backlight and one for a lantern. ( I would not use a bulb over 100 watts) just to bring up ambient light levels, should your video camera not be able to utilize the same amout of light as your still camera.
The bottom opening of your chinese lantern could supply added bounce light off of the dinner table to enhance your actors face as well.. This is presuming the lantern is quite close to your subject. You can hang additional chinese lanterns from the ceilings mouldings, but I would "Skirt" these with black duvetyne( black ,dense fabric) so the light is not spilling around everywhere, but just so the bottom 1/3 of the lantern is lighting other tables. You could also scrap this idea, and just use additional 150 or 300 watt tungstens, scrimed and barndoored down for edge,fill and slashes of light on other actors, chairs, windows and the waiter...
I like to observe other ways light can be introduced to a scene as well. A brief splash of light by a passing car, a door opening and bringing up light levels for a moment, a reflection from chrome or a mirror passing through your scene.
A car pulling up outside the window may provide a moment of interesting light from it's head lights, perhaps this could also indicate the arrival of your actors guest, unless she is suppose to be there alone of course...
Good luck...
,EDIT, you will not be able to use the overhead boards in your wide shot, but could be "sneaked in" for medium shots and close ups.
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