Advice for a recorder

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David Evans

Well-known member
Hi, I'll be shooting an independent feature film in May and I'm looking for a good audio recorder to take care of all the audio work. I'm using a Canon XH A1 and a AT8035 for outdoors and looking to buy an Oktava M012 for indoor stuff. My sound tech has a preamp that he'll be using as well.

My price range would be around 400USD and I've read some good things about these two options:

Zoom H6
Roland R-26

I would love to get some thoughts and opinions :)

Thanks!
 
For a $400 budget?

Either straight into your XH-A1 and use the $400 toward BBG & blimp, boom pole, gloves, headphones, suspension mounts. Or something along the lines of a Sound Devices mix pre to feed the XH-A1.
 
Well at least you didn't say sound was "really important and 1/2 the film".

But to be fair he only said the budget for the recorder was about $400, not all sound. And you can get a decent recorder for not a lot more.

OP, you have a $4,000 + camera, so it's going to have pretty decent sound. You may well be better served getting a decent preamp and feeding a line in to the camera. You said your sound guy has a preamp. That might be the ticket, it really depends on the Preamp. Sound devices make good ones, and there are three or four others that make good portable pres that will work well.

The handheld recorders are problematic for production work because the they are too small to see and control easily.

The Tascam DR680 might be a better choice and is in the same price range.
 
Noiz2 said:
OP, you have a $4,000 + camera
Click to expand...

If you have a £4k camera you should budget to spend at least $4k on the sound.

Sound is more than 50% of the film (unless you are shooting a silent movie) as most of the information is in the sound - also, you will notice bad sound before you notice bad pictures.

By the way - sound should also be checked by someone who has not read the script - too often I watch TV with incomprehensible speech that even if you record and replay is still not understandable - all because the person doing the recording knew the script and knew what was being said and had not realised that, although levels seemed OK, the words were incomprehensible.
 
Thank you all for your answers! I understand when someone says "If you have a £4k camera you should budget to spend at least $4k on the sound". In a perfect world, I would... but I don't have that money, so I need to invest in things that will make the biggest difference. I'm not a sound guy, but I've read so much on this forum and other sites about sound, that I've been doing sound in every movie I directed. But still, like I said, I'm not a sound expert... not even close.

What I need to know is what is truly important and will significantly enhance what I have now. And what I have now is simply plug my AT8035 straight to the XLR input of my Canon XH A1. It sounds good, but of course it lacks all the audio control that a proper sound tech would demand. On my next movie, since it's a feature film, I wanted to have a dedicated sound tech with the proper work flow. And this guy I know has a good preamp, wich I believe should clean up the sound pretty well, but I'll try to know the exact brand/model of the preamp to get some feedback here.

So is it a good investment to go for a dedicated audio recorder and not use the camera? I'm also going to invest in a hyper (probably the MK012). If I don't invest in an audio recorder, my budget could be redirected for other things (maybe a coupple of lavs or a better hyper...).

Let me know what you think, as I can be thinking this all wrong :)
 
I own an XH-A1, and honestly you are not going to hear a significant difference between the audio from your camera and a $400 recorder. IMHO that money should be used where it will make a bigger difference in your film.
 
I would agree as well, that your sound will not be much if better at all with a zoom recorder or the like, as opposed to your camera. There is a lot of misinformation out there about in camera preamps and noise in the audio portion of a camera.

You put a truly decent mic on one of these prosumer cameras with XLR inputs and phantom power and you would be shocked at how quiet and good they are relative to the info that is out there about them.

But you have to spend in excess of a thousand dollars on a mic to find this out.

The other option is you can rent an Sennheiser MKH-50 for your indoor and a Sennheiser 416 for your outdoor/boom work. The MKH-50 is good on a boom as well for indoor and possibly outdoor.

You will still need a boom pole, decent mic mounts and such, so the above advice on that I would concur as well.
 
As I tried to point out you are not just spending $400, you have other things coming in and a dedicated sound person who if they own a preamp probably knows something about sound so that is a nice step up.

As others have said the audio on your camera is going to be hard to beat for the budget. What I would do though is use something like a SD MixPre as the front end. You can feed a line level signal to the camera and with the SD limiters you can set things up so the preamp is "clip proof" at the camera so the sound person can set levels from the mix pre and not have to worry about clipping the camera.

"owning a preamp" as much as it implies good things doesn't say much in absolute terms. It could be the $49 Behringer 9V powered mic pre, or something actually designed for production work, OR possible a studio mic pre that needs to be plugged in and is really not appropriate at all.

The upside for you with going to camera is that sync should not be an issue. The down side is you don't have a portable recorder. But for production that is not that big a deal. For post you are going to want to be able to go out and record stuff, but you should get a sound person for that also and they ma well own a recorder.

So if your sound guy's mic pre is good for what you need then maybe toss the $400 in to the post sound budget.
 
Great help guys, thanks! :) I just spoke with my sound guy and he told me his preamp is a PreSonus Blue Tube V2. Not sure if it will do the job, but knowing this info, what would be the best purchase for me? Is that preamp sufficient to feed a good line level signal for my camera?

Thanks!
 
David Evans said:
Great help guys, thanks! :) I just spoke with my sound guy and he told me his preamp is a PreSonus Blue Tube V2. Not sure if it will do the job, but knowing this info, what would be the best purchase for me? Is that preamp sufficient to feed a good line level signal for my camera?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Skip that preamp!
 
I was sure somebody would say that :P Ok, if that preamp sucks, please tell me a good preamp that could feed a "clip proof" with good line level audio signal into my camera :) Let's say around $400-$500

Thanks
 
It's not that the pre sucks but it's a tube preamp, and it needs to be plugged in. What you want is a VERY clean preamp with some production features. Ideally a low cut and a good brick wall limiter.

You might be able to pick up a used MixPre for that price. If you only beed one channel then the MM1 is I thing in you range new.
 
Noiz2 said:
It's not that the pre sucks but it's a tube preamp, and it needs to be plugged in. What you want is a VERY clean preamp with some production features. Ideally a low cut and a good brick wall limiter.

You might be able to pick up a used MixPre for that price. If you only beed one channel then the MM1 is I thing in you range new.
Click to expand...

Agree!
 
Is renting not an option? Depending on where you are at you might be able with 400 bucks to rent a 302, pole, suspension, decent mike, and maybe have a bit left over. If you have to buy and could increase your budget a bit an older sqn 4s mixer( $500)(pro sound), sennheiser me80 ($125) (ebay), (used ambient pole)($100)trew audio. plus cables and suspension (?) everything you would be able to sell after your shoot is over or kept and used. All that gear is professional. Those are prices as of yesterday.
 
Great stuff guys, thanks! Noiz2, just saw your post so I didn't get to that bidding in time. But I'll start looking for that MixPre. So it's just mic -> Mix Pre -> Canon XH A1? The sound tech will stay with phones plugged to the Mix Pre to level the audio, right? If I can't find the MixPre, the MM1 would be a good pick?

Thank you all for your help, and I'll just ask one thing more. I need a hyper and I've read some good stuff about the Oktava M012. Is there a better bang for buck mic?

Thanks!!
 
"I've read some good stuff about the Oktava M012. Is there a better bang for buck mic?"
Probably not, but still not a good mic for budget recorders, preamps and inexperienced users IMO. Also search and read about Oktava's (former?) quality control issues, 'counterfeits' handling and 'wind' noise, issues, low output (sensitivity), optional modifications, ect.
Can it sound good? Yes, in the right hands, with a good quality preamp and/or recorder.
 
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