Advice/Equipment recommendations for shooting a doc in Brazil

L

LemmyCaution

New member
Hi,


Recently I was lucky enough to have my school award me some funding (ballpark $6,000) to shoot a documentary on capoeira in Brazil over the summer (July-August). That's theoretically my entire budget for flight/accommodation/etc, but I am more than willing to try and raise a bit more cash over the summer and work myself, and can forsee myself probably raising another $2,000 without too, too much effort. I'm not quite sure if I can scrounge together more. I was notified recently and have some serious planning to do before I leave. I have limited experience (I took a number of production classes throughout high school and was in a "video/film" production program that run on a somewhat tight production schedule) and am not quite sure where to start. I threw up a thread at Ars Technica (a site I normally read) and was pointed in this direction. I've come to ask for, if you could please give it, for advice on what would be the best equipment to get for my budget and on traveling in general. First, let me clarify my situation.

What I've Got

I currently have a Zoom H4n. I'm planning on doing all my audio on that and perhaps with a mic or two. I have a Canon hv20 and a tripod that I nicked from my father that I've been pretty happy using. That's about all I've got at present. I'm used to shooting on HVXs (all my work on highschool was done on them), but apart from that have little experience and see why one might not be ideal for this circumstance.

I'm planning on heading down with myself and a friend of mine who speaks the language. Depending on things, I might end up there alone, but I'm hoping to have someone to help out. That'd be ideal.



Particular Concerns with Equipment:

I'm devoting two months of life to this, so I'd really like to make a quality doc. At the same time, I realize I'm a pretty tight budget. I know I'm probably going to have to compromise on a few things. That said I'm looking for something that's somewhat versatile (I'm going to need decent low-light performance) and that's small and easy to carry. I'm an obviously American student that doesn't speak a much Portuguese. I'm already a target. I don't need to be lugging bags of stuff to make me more of one. I'm also going to be moving around a good deal. Both things are really important.

As secondary concerns I'd like something that can handle wide angles just due to the nature of how capoeira is. I'd like to have some money aside for a second camera to cover under the bateria/outward shots (not what I'd primarily be using, but really useful to cut to. Most successful capoeira footage I see does this). A GoPro may prove useful here (as well as for some first person capoeira footage of notable people. I don't know if I could get them agree to it, but play a game from relatively famous so and so's point of view would be really cool).

Sound is pretty important. I'm mostly going to be recording things that either A) interviews or B) live music being performed as part of the roda or practice of capoeira.



Backup and Storage

I am probably not going to have easy access to the internet. I'm in a place where it is both humid and the physical safety of my equipment is at risk due to the mere fact I'm traveling. What are some good back up options? I was thinking about using primarily flash based equipment and taking a bunch of cards. I'd also back stuff onto an external HDD and on my netbook.

Is there much benefit to getting a ruggedized HDD? Is there a good way to back things up if my netbook fields? I'm kind of worried about this.


Personal Safety

I've really never been abroad without my entire family being with me. I've never really been and never been anywhere I don't speak the language fluently. What's the best way to deal with these things?

I'm going to be shooting in a foreign environment, potentially alone. Kind of scary.



What I'm Thinking:


I, as is fashionable, initially wanted to look into bringing down an HDLSR, but realize that something like the 5D MK II is towards the upper end of my price-point fully equipped and that I'd have to find and put a good deal of money into this project. I'd look at the Canon 7D or T2i if not the fact that they both seem to have overheating problems. That could be problematic. The thing is, they're just so cinematic and pretty. Are the issues as bad as people say they are?

People have recommended the Panasonic GH1/2. Don't know much about them. Still worried about the same issues as other HDSLRs. I'm also a bit worried by a lack of autofocus (there's a lot of movement in capoiera. I tend not to use it much, but it could be useful) and by delving into the whole issue of lenses. A doc might need longer takes (changing cards mid interview might a pain.)HDSLRs are somewhat hard to shoot on. But they're too danged pretty.


Then again, I'm not sure of what else is portable, inexpensive, and good. This isn't an area of expertise for me. At the moment I'm looking toward the Canon XA10 HD supposedly has good low light performance. It's light. It's portable. But, I've had trouble finding information it. I'd also prefer it had more frame-rate options at 1080P. That alongside the Canon XF100 and Sony HXR-NX5U seem like the real things in contention. Then again, this isn't an area of my expertise, and I'd like maybe both recommendations of a specific camera, what too look for, and what direction to look in.


I think something like a GoPro would be a cheap side/back up camera. Not sure if the footage will mesh or look good with whatever else I'm shooting on though. I need to do some research on sound equipment. I need to practice on whatever I get.

So That's Where I'm at


I'd be grateful for any help you could provide!
 
Suggestion HMC-40

Suggestion HMC-40

You have to realize that anything you do is going to be a compromise. So the HMC40 is one suggestion that keeps you in budget, is very light and compact, has tremendous IQ, decent audio and more. The downside is mediocre performance in low light, so you might want to carry a micro LED and or a reflector disc.

I use the HMC40 for a B-cam and for when I want a light daypack carry. This set up is so light, I don't need a full backpack, the camera sling works great since you can access it without taking it all the way off. I have changed this kit a little since the photo was taken and now include a Panny WA lens with clip on nylon hood, I usually skip the DR100 in favor of cam direct using the Panny audio adapter. If I were going on the trip you describe I would buy a SD mixpre and gaffe it on somewhere so I could have a mini-mixer. So in the pictured sling pack you could carry:

Cam with 2 bats and charger
WA adapter with nylon hood
Memory
3 filters, + lens cleaning kit
Panny audio adapter and handle
hyper mic + BBG
very small shotgun (AT875) + fuzzy
shock mount and 15ft cable
SD MixPre
short boom pole (strapped to the exterior)

If you gave up the WA lens or the BBG, you could squeeze a small LED light in, or maybe hang something extra in an exterior pouch.

This kit can do a lot of work, is light and is VERY inconspicuous. Even the cam in use is fairly inconspicuous. It fulfills all your requirements except for low light performance. To get that, you need a bigger more expensive cam which WILL be conspicuous and will bust your budget.

There is lots of info about the HMC40 at DVXuser in its own list, or if you have any questions, just ask.

See two photos, one with sling, the other with WA lens and nylon hood.

In any event, I am envious of your opportunity and hope this idea will give you a place to start.

Grant
 

Attachments

  • CompactKit.jpg
    CompactKit.jpg
    111 KB · Views: 0
  • P1000153.jpg
    P1000153.jpg
    101.6 KB · Views: 0
As someone filming a doc in a foreign country, my advice:

First of all, get someone from Brazil to help you. At a bare minimum, you need someone who speaks the language, but really, you need someone on your team who is from Brazil, at least originally. Beyond the language issue, there's cultural issues a non-native (even one who speaks Portugese) may not be aware of. And, racist as this may sound, the fact is that people tend to feel more comfortable when they're talking to someone from their own country. In our example, if we didn't have some Chinese people on our team, we'd never get anything shot here, even though all the foreign members of our team also speak Chinese. Sometimes, you just need that "familiar" face. (I realize this is not PC, but neither is the world, so unless you're planning to interview only politically correct people in Brazil, you need to be aware of it).

Basically, you need to find a fixer; someone who can help you with logistics, find interviews and stories, smooth out issues with cops, tell you where to go to avoid being shot, etc. You could certainly hire someone, but my guess is you could use the internet to find someone who'd be willing to help out if you offer them a producer credit and the chance to really be involved with the film and the subjects.

Don't be too put off by the idea of paying, though. If you're only there for a few months, I'm guessing paying a fair LOCAL salary isn't going to break the bank. I don't know too much about Brazil, but in China, you could get 2-3 months full time work from a local fixer for around $1000 USD. Now, granted, better and more experienced fixers are more expensive, but still. If you think about it...you're going to spend multiple thousands of dollars on gear, isn't spending a G or two on having the right helper worth it? It doesn't matter HOW great your camera is if you miss half the cool stuff you could have shot because you don't speak Portugese, or you couldn't figure out how to get to the place in time.

Even if you ignore all of this, don't be alone. Bring someone! Ideally someone who knows as much about Brazilian language and culture as humanly possible, but having someone else there regardless of their expertise is not only way safer, it's also useful in that they can help you run sound, you can bounce ideas off them, they can suggest new and interesting approaches, etc. It's also better for your sanity. As someone who's spent a lot of time living in a foreign country, working solo in a culture you don't understand can be extremely draining and can even lead to depression. I really think that for the sake of (1) your safety (2) your mental well-being and (3) the quality of your film (WHAT you get, not what you shoot it on) you really, really should be bringing someone, and ideally someone Brazilian who you trust.

Regarding gear, as the above poster said, anything you do is going to be a compromise. That said, here's what I suggest you bring (this is all gear that I have shot with).

Canon 60d - movable screen is great for video, doesn't have the same overheating issues 7d and t2i seem to have - $1000 (body only)
Zoom h4n - you've already got this
Rode videomic pro - low profile, and good for run and gun as it plugs directly into the 60d. Now, is it the same as having a pro mic on a boom pole? No. But you can't afford that and you don't want to draw that kind of attention anyway. - $230
Countryman EMW wired lav - for sit-down interviews, you don't need wireless and you save a lot of money but still get fantastic sound quality. $180.

There, that's your kit, although you'll need cards and batteries and stuff of course. That only puts you at around $1500, so there's plenty of money left over for a few lenses. I highly suggest the Canon 50mm EF f.1.4 (NOT the 1.8!). This makes a great portrait lens for interviews with the 60d's crop factor, it's got AMAZING low light performance, and if you ever upgrade to a full frame camera in the future, you can still use the lens because it's an EF lens. Plus, it's pretty affordable!

Beyond that, I'd recommend maybe two more lenses. You'll want a more general/versatile zoom lens...I use the stock lens, it's OK but I'd recommend you do some research and see if there isn't something better. Maybe buy an old Nikon lens and adapter or something, more bang for your buck there. And then you'll probably want a wide angle for tight interior situations (cars and such). Everyone says the Tokina 11-16mm is a great lens for the price; I haven't used one yet myself but when I can afford to buy it I will.

If you need a GoPro you could throw one in there too. Might be able to get some cool shots with it if you stick it to someone's head or something. I think the footage should mesh fine.

I should note, too, that I'm not one of the HDSLR apostles or anything. I'm also shooting my doc with a Panasonic HMC153 in addition to the 60D. But for your budget, the 60D has some real advantages, and it's also much much lower profile than any video camera that looks pro, even the cheaper ones. Tons of tourists have DSLRs, but very few have expensive pro video cameras, so when you break out an expensive pro video camera, you stand out.

The other DSLR advantage, from a doc perspective, is that lots of people don't know they can shoot video, or don't expect them to be shooting video. If you're trying to stay under the radar -- as we are in our project -- that can be invaluable. The 12-minute recording limit and lack of pro audio input is annoying for doc work, sure, but like people have said, you're making compromises no matter what you buy so it's really just a matter of which ones to make.

Regarding keeping your data safe, you can try to bring a ton of cards and keep all your footage on them, but I'd also recommend just getting a few external HDs and copying it to all of them. Data redundancy, man. Your footage is worth it. And you can easily get like 3 decent, 500 GB USB 2.0 drives for $300, so why not? If you do that, PLUS keep footage on your cards, you'll be able to sleep easy knowing the chances of data loss are very slim. Plus those things are super small these days. Three of the little Seagate 500 GB drives take up about as much space as three tiny paperbacks or one big hardcover book....very portable.


(Note if you do go HDSLR, you'll also want some ND filters for shooting outdoors in bright light if you still want shallow DOF. But those aren't hard to find or super expensive.)

Good luck!

Uber-paranoid edit: I'd also recommend keeping at least one HD that contains all your footage somewhere off-site...maybe at your fixer's house, instead of your hotel room, or even just hidden somewhere outside. That way in the event of robbery/police search/fire/freak lightning you're not screwed.
 
Last edited:
I have a standing rule about working in Brazil with very good reason;

I must receive my day rate plus a refundable retainer for the replacement cost of any gear that goes there... ALOT of areas of Brazil are pretty sketchy, hotel break ins are pretty common in some parts. Customs can be pretty corrupt as well.

A local/fixer is a must, especially for someone with no experience traveling abroad... do you have a point of contact there? I can't imagine your school just figured to plop you down into Brazil on your own.

As far as gear goes...the cheaper and smaller the better. Forget about any lighting set ups and keep your audio as small as possible... reflectors, lights and long cords are HUGE flags that you don't want to be waving there. Could you use the HV20 with a W/A adaptor? I would go with the HV20 and maybe a T2i but nothing more to reduce your risk... the 50 1.4 lens would be a good selection as well. The GoPro would be a good selection as well. If you take multiple cameras, split them up in the bags if you can... if customs deems you a "professional" you will face problems.

Where would you be flying from? The airfare alone to Brazil will possibly eat up a third of your budget right out of the gate.

All that being said Brazil is a pretty interesting place and I have some very good friends down there but you have to remember where you are going... there is a reason they had to transport F1 drivers in armored cars;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11704802
 
Good advice in all those posts. Since I presently have both a HMC40 and a GH2, both of which could work for you, I'll add a few comments:

1) With the larger battery, the HMC40 will many hours before needing a battery swop or recharge. You would be looking at 3 or 4 batteries minimum to get an equivalent run time from the GH2.

2) The GH2 is considerably less conspicuous, and any folk who do notice will likely think you are shooting stills.

3) With a wide lens, the GH2 has better lowlight capacity. But you will be swopping lenses on the GH2 to get anywhere near the HMC's tele zoom range - that will cost you time and risks dust on the sensor, etc.

4) Even with the cheap kit 14-40mm, the GH2 has better wideangle than the HMC40 - you'll need to factor in a wideangle adaptor for the HMC40.

5) The HMC40 has built-in ND filtration but not enough - you should bring along an ND filter for daylight shooting. The GH2 has no ND filtration at all so you should factor in a vari-ND or multiple ND filter kit.

6) I think you will prefer the GH2 handling and quality over the Canon60D.
 
Nascency Chris said:
I have a standing rule about working in Brazil with very good reason;

I must receive my day rate plus a refundable retainer for the replacement cost of any gear that goes there... ALOT of areas of Brazil are pretty sketchy, hotel break ins are pretty common in some parts. Customs can be pretty corrupt as well.

A local/fixer is a must, especially for someone with no experience traveling abroad... do you have a point of contact there? I can't imagine your school just figured to plop you down into Brazil on your own.

As far as gear goes...the cheaper and smaller the better. Forget about any lighting set ups and keep your audio as small as possible... reflectors, lights and long cords are HUGE flags that you don't want to be waving there. Could you use the HV20 with a W/A adaptor? I would go with the HV20 and maybe a T2i but nothing more to reduce your risk... the 50 1.4 lens would be a good selection as well. The GoPro would be a good selection as well. If you take multiple cameras, split them up in the bags if you can... if customs deems you a "professional" you will face problems.

Where would you be flying from? The airfare alone to Brazil will possibly eat up a third of your budget right out of the gate.

All that being said Brazil is a pretty interesting place and I have some very good friends down there but you have to remember where you are going... there is a reason they had to transport F1 drivers in armored cars;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11704802
Click to expand...


That is absolutely horrifying. I know that Brazil is a pretty rough place, but there's intellectually knowing and there's actually having it click when I get there. I grew up in SoCal suburbia, fortunate to be in an area in which little to no violent crime or theft really occurred. Closest I've been to that has been when I'd visit family in Venezuela. But they took a good deal of precautions. Driver etc. Not to mention being from there. Surprisingly, however, my school thinks I have a good enough self-preservation instinct that they didn't check if I had anything set up there. They didn't set anything up there either. That's why I'm frantically trying to figure stuff out.

I'm flying from Caracas, Venezuela. My cousin there is getting married and then I'm off to Salvador. I'd be flying back to LAX most likely. At this point I am pretty sure that I'll be heading down to Brazil with a good friend of a few friends of mine who has spent a good amount of time in the area I'm at and is from Sao Paolo originally. He wants me to cover the cost of his flight down, but is good beyond that. He's got some good connections with capoeiristas in the area too apparently. He's shot a doc there before and seems pretty excited about helping. I think it'll work out well. I am going to meet with him and discuss things more in depth next week. I'm going to need to think of a few things to ask.


A big reason for wanting to go with the HDSLRs is, as custerc noted, they're inconspicuous. The GoPro seems like it'd be pretty small and inconspicuous too. It's possible to pick up a wide angle lens for the HV20, but then I'm dealing with tape. I suppose I can capture on to my netbook via firewire. A wide angle lens ins available from Canon. There are probably a few others. I haven't looked too much into it. I'm also worried about the footage from the HV20 is going to mesh with the footage from an HDSLR.


Having a two man team is going to give me some more options to. It'll be nice if I can use the HV20 for general coverage and an HDSLR for some more interesting angles. For some reason most capoeira stuff I see doesn't believe in multiple angles (even stuff packaged as DVDs for people that play, the kind of people you'd imagine would care). My father's got a Vixia that I might be able to borrow. Not sure what model. But if it's equivalent to the HV20 quality wise, that may be worth taking instead. Avoiding the whole tape thing. I'm still kind of curious of what opinions on the XA10 are. It seems like it'd be pretty inconspicuous once you take off the handle/XLR ports. Looks like a normal camcorder.





@GrahamH: Any particular reason I'd prefer the the handing of the GH2 to the D60?







[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
 
For what it's worth, I have heard great things about the GH2 as well, though I haven't used one myself yet. The sensor is smaller, though, I believe. Anyway, between the two you can't really go wrong with either one IMO.
 
Well. I think with the time nearing and me wanting to get experience, what's actually in stock is going to be a factor. Does anyone have an ETA when the GH2s are going to get in stock? B&H and Adorama are out, and the ones on Amazon look kind of sketchy.
 
LemmyCaution said:
Well. I think with the time nearing and me wanting to get experience, what's actually in stock is going to be a factor. Does anyone have an ETA when the GH2s are going to get in stock? B&H and Adorama are out, and the ones on Amazon look kind of sketchy.
Click to expand...

Good point.
Isn't Amazon a decent place to buy stuff online? Never would have thought of it as sketchy...
 
custerc said:
As someone filming a doc in a foreign country.... And, racist as this may sound, the fact is that people tend to feel more comfortable when they're talking to someone from their own country. In our example, if we didn't have some Chinese people on our team, we'd never get anything shot here, even though all the foreign members of our team also speak Chinese. Sometimes, you just need that "familiar" face.... Basically, you need to find a fixer; someone who can help you with logistics, find interviews and stories, smooth out issues with cops, tell you where to go to avoid being shot, etc.... Don't be too put off by the idea of paying, though. If you're only there for a few months, I'm guessing paying a fair LOCAL salary isn't going to break the bank. I don't know too much about Brazil, but in China, you could get 2-3 months full time work from a local fixer for around $1000 USD. Now, granted, better and more experienced fixers are more expensive....
Click to expand...

In Beijing China, a typical waiter or dish washing job in a typical small restaurant typically pays the equivalent of about US$300/mo + room & board, no tax. But here, a so-called local fixer (who supposedly commands much more education and is at least able to understand English really well besides Chinese) is paid less than a good restaurant job, for just about US$2/hour... How can this be a "fair" salary?! I pay $5+ tip for a 30 to 45-minute taxi ride from Manhattan to JFK... No wonder why someone is constantly afraid of "robbery/police search/fire/freak lightning" etc in a country typically no more dangerous than New York City.

However, I agree with custerc on the importance of working with locals, except that they deserve full respect even if you don't wish to receive their full respect (and hence their quality help and best advice).



To OP -

Hiring a local and working with local agencies is typical among journalists working in a foreign environment, even if those journalists are able to culturally blend themselves among the locals. If I were you, well before the trip, I'd already start to search for 1 or more local agencies and try to contact them in advance. They can provide invaluable time-saving, and possibly even life-saving help.

You can surely ask them your gear questions, and see what suggestions/advice they can give to you before you try to buy/rent anything.

One thing is of paramount importance: daily backup => at least 3 copies each file. Nowadays you can have a portable 3TB hard drive (> 2700GB) for < $150. I'd suggest: bring at least 1 such drive with you and use it as your master backup and keep it safe. Ideally 2 such drives, leaving 1 in your hotel/whatever, and carrying 1 with you.
 
henryqiu said:
In Beijing China, a typical waiter or dish washing job in a typical small restaurant typically pays the equivalent of about US$300/mo + room & board, no tax. But here, a so-called local fixer (who supposedly commands much more education and is at least able to understand English really well besides Chinese) is paid less than a good restaurant job, for just about US$2/hour... How can this be a "fair" salary?! I pay $5+ tip for a 30 to 45-minute taxi ride from Manhattan to JFK... No wonder why someone is constantly afraid of "robbery/police search/fire/freak lightning" etc in a country typically no more dangerous than New York City.
Click to expand...

As I said, the price varies based on the kind of experience you want. My $1000 for 2/3 months number is based on the average salary of recent college grads, which is 1800-2200 RMB/month last I checked. Among that pool, it would be very easy to find interested, capable people...not people who could give you "gear advice," probably, but people who speak both languages decently and are capable of handling logistical issues that might arise when shooting. However, if you were to hire someone with experience and professional training, yes, of course that would cost more. But, say two months of full time work for $1000 is about 3250 RMB/month (which is well over the number you quoted for a local waiter, so you might want to check your math). That's more than most of my (young) Chinese friends (or my fiancee, also Chinese) make at their full-time, white collar jobs in Beijing.

(And no, their jobs don't include room or board. Chinese college grads make about the same salaries as migrant workers in Beijing. It's not fair, but it is economic reality, and since the OP is already pretty constrained by his budget, I see no problem with my having advised him a number that's within his reach while still providing an above-average salary to his local fixer, assuming he hires a recent grad).

I also have some Chinese friends who work, or have worked, as fixers for foreign media companies in Beijing. The last one I'm aware of was making 5000 RMB/month, but she also had relevant experience before she took that job. My $1000/2 months figure (which was just meant to be a rough estimation, by the way) was based on the assumption that the OP would prefer cheaper options b/c of his budget limitations. In China, certainly, doc makers on a low budget could get by fine with a recent college grad as a fixer, so long as they pick the right person. The people working on our film, for example, don't have any relevant professional experience but they're doing a wonderful job.

As for the end part of your sentence (you know, the part where you insinuate I'm being paranoid for telling the OP to take careful care of his footage, and then pedantically suggest that I don't "respect" Chinese people because you would totally pay more, apparently)...I'm not afraid of any of those things, but anyone would be stupid not to consider them in ANY city when shooting documentary, where your footage is 100% completely unreplacable. You're right, you're not likely to get gear stolen or get hit by freak lightning in Beijing (which is why I used the word "freak", guess you missed the implication there). But if you do, you have lost everything, so why not be extra careful? That way, even if lightning does strike, your footage survives because you took the time to back it up to somewhere else.


Nor did I ever suggest that anyone should not respect "the locals". As you may have gathered, I am engaged to one of "the locals" and have nothing but respect for most of them. 3250 RMB/month is an above-average salary for a recent college grad in Beijing, and would be a pretty damn great salary for recent grads in most other areas of the country. It's not great salary for a professional fixer with experience, but OP is talking about a short term summer school project, not setting up a CNN bureau.

So, in conclusion, stop trying to paint me as some racist out to exploit Chinese people because you don't know the first thing about me and you don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about.
 
Last edited:
Hey, I'm from Brazil, maybe I could help you, but I live in Rio de Janeiro... I have never been to Salvador...

all the opinions on this thread are true, that's a very bad idea to go alone... and I've heard that there's lot of dangerous places in Salvador....you surelly will need a local.

maybe you could post on a brazilian videomakers forum... I'm sure you could find someone from Salvador...
http://videobr.pro.br/forum/portal.php

I hope I could help with anything else!

Ivan
 
wow Great post.

I'm actually prepping to go to Rio De Janeiro to shoot part of a feature, documentary style in November. I would be there for a month with 4 actors, 1 producer and possibly another person but all form the USA. I will have descriptions of scenes and the actors will do all imporv with the locals.
I was about to buy a whole shoulder rig with a big matte box but you guys are saying to be secretive when filming.

I would be bringing:
canon 7d (1-2 bodies)
Lenses; 50mm, 17-50, 11-16, and an 85mm prime
tripod with head
glidecam 4000 pro
1 meter slider
follow focus with whatever rig i decide to purchase soon
macbook pro
3 ext. 1tb hard drives
and some other little things like filters, memory cards etc.

is this too much because if I get robbed im totally screwed? I know a local from Sao Paulo (good friend) who can be my fixer but I know Rio is different territory.

o yea and im planning on having someone hold a mic boom for quality audio feeding it into a Zoom H2. I'm guessing the boom pole will let the kids from the favelas know I have nice toys up for grabs?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top