Egg Born Son
Veteran
Because these things inevitably go wrong and end up shutting down legitimate users. Copy protection has only ever punished paying users.
Adobe rebrands Creative Suite (CS) to "Creative Cloud" (CC) with NEW FEATURES
- Thread starter keylight
- Start date
Because these things inevitably go wrong and end up shutting down legitimate users. Copy protection has only ever punished paying users.
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
Well, let's be honest, CC will not be the first software that gets a "patch" to prevent phoning home pretty fast after release. I don't think this has anything to do with piracy. Adobe made it pretty clear, it's about "driving higher average revenue per user".
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keylight
Veteran
And here's a thread from one year ago - another interesting read: Bad things ahead with Adobe?
BTW, how many of those 500K subscribers do you think are new vs existing? How many are from people who heard about Photoshop and wanted to give it a try because of the initial low entry cost? And how people stopped subscribing, or thought to themselves, "when they release the next upgrade I'm going to buy it so I don't have to pay Adobe every month"?
Everything I've read has been about how 500K have subscribed (was it monthly? annually?) but nothing I've seen actually says that there are 500K active subscribers. Maybe I've just missed it? And how many are big company licenses that have stop/start terms and bulk pricing?
I'd bet that the subscription model didn't generate the kind of response they wanted, so now they're pushing it on people. If it really was a huge hit, they wouldn't need to push and could keep offering a choice, no?
BTW, how many of those 500K subscribers do you think are new vs existing? How many are from people who heard about Photoshop and wanted to give it a try because of the initial low entry cost? And how people stopped subscribing, or thought to themselves, "when they release the next upgrade I'm going to buy it so I don't have to pay Adobe every month"?
Everything I've read has been about how 500K have subscribed (was it monthly? annually?) but nothing I've seen actually says that there are 500K active subscribers. Maybe I've just missed it? And how many are big company licenses that have stop/start terms and bulk pricing?
I'd bet that the subscription model didn't generate the kind of response they wanted, so now they're pushing it on people. If it really was a huge hit, they wouldn't need to push and could keep offering a choice, no?
OKCPicker
Active member
Absurd. Take a look at what's happening all around us. Get customers locked into monthly subscriptions and you hold them captive. I don't update as often as most. I make 5.5 work for me as long as possible. Great stories can still be crafted with "obsolete" software. Adobe and other companies want us addicted to updates. It's a free country though. Do what you want. I may investigate FCP 10 in the future. I'm keeping my head out of the clouds.
hscully
Veteran
Not sure what could go wrong to punish paying users, so I don't know if I accept your premise in this case. Copy protection and DRM has always been a difficult mess, I agree.
My point is that piracy is an excuse for doing this, not a reason. I suggest that if I had to agree to the same "phoning home" solution they propose for their subscription with my perpetual license that I would do so happily. I paid. They are welcome to check my license at any time, in effect, taking the supposition that having a subscription only base protects them somehow, off the table. I think it's clear to everyone who has looked at Keylights posts that it's not about piracy anway. It's about greed and treating your loyal customers like crap (see the Bruno Ganz video
). I know people who don't pay these licenses. I do because I believe I should. I want to. I'm tying to do something here and I want to participate using Adobe based on what I thought I was getting into when I plunked down for the perpetual license. I was buying the latest and greatest, looking forward to updates and codec support with the leader in the field. It was a choice then to subscrbe and I chose otherwise and they have not honored my purchase. I dont' want to pay for that subscription and so eventually I will have to move off Adobe which is an awful shame because I do like it.It happens quite a lot. You have a legitimate license, but the software refuses to run for a myriad of reasons.
hscully
Veteran
"... as we transition them" yeah... transition. It's a good point. This works both ways. The incentive to get on for the no entry price is enticing but they have to deal with the downside as well, of people dropping off for whatever reason. If they made the sale at the beginning, they would at least have that. It may be as you say that the subscriptions weren't going that well and the decided to push it but their calculus should include the sunk cost of their current perpetual license holders in some more helpful way. I have one license, what about a shop with 10 or more? They get the pleasure of the first year discount? I think it's a huge gamble on their part. My investment in that perpetual license and their ability to keep me in the game is much more of a commitment than a subscriber has. The subscriber,at least the little guy, will cut out as soon as they can.
You think they'd ever back out of this and restore the perpetual license?
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keylight
Veteran
No, very unlikely.
What really gets me is that they could have actually offered a perpetual license WITH a subscription and satisfied everyone:
- Full subscription - All software for $50/month
- Perpetual license - full and upgrades as they've always done
- Perpetual license with Cloud service/support subscription
Essentially this third option is the old, "add a support package" model where you pay for support & updates for the next 365 days, with the added cloud features as the "new & innovative" bit. And to give users an incentive to upgrade to the next full version when it comes out, simply let existing subscriptions on the older version expire at the end of their terms. Then people can either upgrade and get a new subscription, or keep using the prior version (with all the updates they paid for during the subscription) and loose access to the cloud features and future updates. If you decide you want new features, upgrade and re-subscribe at any time.
With this model Adobe would make a higher profit margin than in the past (although not as high as forcing a subscription), had a steadier and more predictable stream of income, and been able to offer constant updates. It would meet ALL of their STATED goals. But it would FAIL TO MEET THEIR ONE UNSTATED GOAL, which I content is the REAL reason for going with only the subscription only model - forcing users to pay them every month for the rest of their creative lives.
I bet they could sell upgrades (at their normal pricing) and a subscription (say at $120/year) to 80-90% of perpetual license holders.
Assuming an upgrade every 2 years, they'd make $370/year (upgrade every 2 years at $500 and 2 years of subscription for $240). Previously they made about $250/year. With subscription only they make $600/year. So they're making a bit less, but they'll make a lot of that up in volume, selling it to many more people.
Not necessarily. Speaking in general terms, there comes a point when offering options isn't cost feasible, and the company needs to drop one of those options, even if it does upset some customers.
keylight
Veteran
Here's an even easier model for Adobe:
Sell one thing, a subscription. But offer a buyout option!
This model has been around for ages, and anyone who has ever leased equipment before knows what this is.
You pay Adobe $300/year for a renewable subscription. At the end of each subscription year you can either renew for another year or buyout the subscription. If you buyout, you pay Adobe a fee to convert your software (the current version with all updates received during the subscription) to a perpetual license. $450 would be a reasonable price - a bit lower than the current Master Collection upgrade price, but a bit higher than the Design/Production suite upgrade prices.
Adobe will have made $750 from you. They can thank you, and tell you that they hope you'll come back as a subscriber again someday.
Very Simple. Amazingly simple. Fair to Adobe. Fair to customers.
Kevin Monahan
Active member
Thanks for your post, keylight. If you (or anyone on this thread) have ideas about where Adobe should take Creative Cloud, including pricing, etc., feel free to contact product teams via the wish form: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish
Thanks,
Kevin
Thanks,
Kevin
Kevin Monahan
Active member
You've actually got 99 days. From the Creative Cloud FAQ:
More info: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html
Kevin Monahan
Active member
You must be connected to the internet to download and license the software. If you have a yearly contract, you have up to 99 days (soon may be even more days) to reauthenticate your subscription. Currently, we are looking into providing solutions customers that cannot be on the internet, mainly gov't and military customers. If you'd like an option to have your computer completely off the internet as an individual or Creative Cloud for Teams user, let the team know here: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish
Kevin Monahan
Active member
Yes, you can just keep working with the software up to 99 days. If you are out in the field over 99 days w/o access to the internet, please let customer service know: http://helpx.adobe.com/contact.html
hscully
Veteran
Both sets of options you describe here and above are better than the single option of subscription only. I guess it's a matter of how many people drop off from the subscription to support either the "add a support package" or "license w cloud." It's weird that they just dumped this they way they did. It seems a little thoughtless on their part because they don't know who's going to drop off and when. They really have taken a huge gamble when you think of it this way.
Kevin Monahan
Active member
You can subscribe to Creative Cloud or a single application on a month to month basis, it is just more expensive than a yearly contract.
Kevin Monahan
Active member
This is misinformation. You can run Creative Cloud applications on two computers at the same time. The EULA has changed to reflect that.
See the "Getting Started" section of the FAQ: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/faq.html#desktop-products
Adobe Creative Cloud FAQ said:
Hope that clears up this issue.
keylight
Veteran
Kevin, I see by your sig that you're from Adobe. I appreciate that you're here and starting to engage with people on all of this. As to the Adobe wish form, it's hard for me to take it seriously.
But you're here, representing Adobe and reading our comments, criticisms, and ideas. If you pass along what you're reading to others at Adobe - talk to the people sitting across from you and down the hall - that's more powerful than using a form to make a wish.
So at your next MarCom team meeting pass along some of what you've read.
Thanks!
BrandonT
Well-known member
Thanks. I really hate to be the spreader of misinformation, so thank you for further clearing that up. You said that the EULA has changed to reflect it. So then it used to be true, then? If that is the case, it would be OLD information, not misinformation. There's a difference.
I hope that you'll contact LA Times about changing it.Also, following up from key, I want to say that it is really awesome to have you here responding directly. I still don't like the new system, and nothing will change that. But I still appreciate the effort from you and the company as a whole.
It may not be. Adobe employees have stated repeatedly that the Bug Report/Feature Request is the best way to have your message seen directly by the folks who can do something about it. Kevin's voice may help, but may be more of a secondary avenue.