Adobe rebrands Creative Suite (CS) to "Creative Cloud" (CC) with NEW FEATURES

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

That is one advantage of being a small independent. I too can switch easily without a problem. I actually
feel bad for some of the big places, especially one I know that switched from FCP 7 to CS 6 and is now
beside themselves.

Perhaps not... depending... in terms of tax deductions, the 'monthly/yearly' type subscription would go into expenses, while purchasing a 'permanent' copy may be considered a 'capital asset', and be dealt with differently than the 'expense'.

This is why a company will 'lease' equipment, vehicles, etc... vs. outright buy them.

I personally like the subscription, despite not having a 'permanent' copy in my closet... I was never able to afford the 'big package price', since I only use Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effects, and now with CS6 Audition... for the 1200 or so that the 'suites' were... I can pay for 2 years of subscriptions, given that Adobe seems to be coming out with new versions on that time scale... it sort of works out...

 

[alaskacameradude]

There is a difference here - FCP7 was outdated to the point of being broken. The big place has switched to a platform that will remain viable for many years.
We, as a community, are simply learning to become more versatile - not by choice, but by force. All eggs cannot remain in one basket permanently.
All things change.

Well this particular place is worried about CS6 support of the new XAVC codec.
With as fast as cameras are coming out these days, CS6 will need new codecs
added or it may not be viable for many years. I will use it as long as I can but
will certainly not depend on it lasting for many years. It may or may not, but
I need to plan for what NLE to move to if it does not.

 

[alaskacameradude]

Perhaps not... depending... in terms of tax deductions, the 'monthly/yearly' type subscription would go into expenses, while purchasing a 'permanent' copy may be considered a 'capital asset', and be dealt with differently than the 'expense'.

This is why a company will 'lease' equipment, vehicles, etc... vs. outright buy them.

I personally like the subscription, despite not having a 'permanent' copy in my closet... I was never able to afford the 'big package price', since I only use Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effects, and now with CS6 Audition... for the 1200 or so that the 'suites' were... I can pay for 2 years of subscriptions, given that Adobe seems to be coming out with new versions on that time scale... it sort of works out...

Not sure what you mean. If it costs less than 25 grand you can use a section 179 deduction
to treat it as an expense rather than a capital asset. Most NLE's cost less than 25 grand and
thus are eligible for a section 179 deduction.

 

[Sage]

Well this particular place is worried about CS6 support of the new XAVC codec.
With as fast as cameras are coming out these days, CS6 will need new codecs
added or it may not be viable for many years.

Going forward, I expect options for using CS6 comfortably will narrow.
For now, the approach will be to encode exports into codecs not available (h.265) using a secondary conversion program, and prepare footage for the NLE with a batch encode in the event of incompatible camera codecs (of which there are few atm). I hope Adobe will take the honorable route with regard to XAVC and perpetual license holders.
Speaking for myself - I intend to use cameras which record to either Prores or Dnxhd; these codecs are fantastic.

 

[Sage]

I will use it as long as I can but
will certainly not depend on it lasting for many years. It may or may not, but
I need to plan for what NLE to move to if it does not.

+

 

[keylight]

Perhaps not... depending... in terms of tax deductions, the 'monthly/yearly' type subscription would go into expenses, while purchasing a 'permanent' copy may be considered a 'capital asset', and be dealt with differently than the 'expense'.

This is why a company will 'lease' equipment, vehicles, etc... vs. outright buy them.

I personally like the subscription, despite not having a 'permanent' copy in my closet... I was never able to afford the 'big package price', since I only use Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effects, and now with CS6 Audition... for the 1200 or so that the 'suites' were... I can pay for 2 years of subscriptions, given that Adobe seems to be coming out with new versions on that time scale... it sort of works out...

I'm not sure I'm following your reasoning. After the purchase of your first suite (although I'd guess that like most of us you've had a suite for quite a few years), you could upgrade to each new major version (every 2-3 years based on their schedule) for less than a 1 year of the subscription price. And you could even spread that out over a credit card if you needed to. At $500 for the upgrade over 12 months of payments at 20% interest per year, it would be take you 12 months at $51/month. The next 12 months of using the product would basically be free - a savings of $600 over the subscription.

Not sure what you mean. If it costs less than 25 grand you can use a section 179 deduction
to treat it as an expense rather than a capital asset. Most NLE's cost less than 25 grand and
thus are eligible for a section 179 deduction.

It's actually $500,000 now!

 

[Kenneth Fisher]

Glad I started migrating back to Sony Vegas...

Why did you decide to migrate back to Vegas?

 

[Barry_Green]

Why did you decide to migrate back to Vegas?

I've always preferred Vegas' workflow, and it is simply a much faster way to work. And it is an all-in-one app. The thing that drove me away from Vegas was their Sony-centric approach that started around version 8 or so. But recently they've actually had a change of heart and implemented native P2, DVCPRO, and AVC-Intra support. That gives me hope that they may finally have pulled their head out of their rectum and decided to put the needs of their customer first again, instead of trying to force the customer to adapt to what the company wants.

Which is exactly what it looks like Adobe is trying to do: force the customer to change to something that is better for the company. Not a big fan of that attitude. Companies have to understand that we are not their cattle, to be milked for their benefit. We are their EMPLOYERS, and we will pay them for a job well done, and we will fire them when they don't do what we need.

 

[David Jimerson]

They need to find a way to keep the few of us stupid enough to keep paying for things happy with our decision. This is not the way to go about it.

What do you suggest? I'm all ears, seriously, because software isn't the only business having its lunch eaten by piracy.

 

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

Not sure what you mean. If it costs less than 25 grand you can use a section 179 deduction
to treat it as an expense rather than a capital asset. Most NLE's cost less than 25 grand and
thus are eligible for a section 179 deduction.

A quick check on the limits suggests that the 2013 limits are up to $500K, which is news to me... and an overall limit of $2M... due to recent 'economic stimulus' legislation in the US... and is seen as smal/medium business advantage.
In any case these are limits for 'all capital assests' purchased by the company in a year...

There is the capital asset recapture requirement, as well as where it stands on the books... which usually don't figure into small business considerations much for the most part anyway...

So, perhaps there's no effective difference for that 'first year of use'... but subsequent years one can still expense out the lease/rental/subscription, where as the capita asset is a 'first year of use' only deal.

 

[hscully]

Piracy is hideous. I'm sorry to keep pounding this but why not use the same technology that shuts down lapsed subscribers to shut down illegitimate users? It's the same installed app, right? I have no problem letting my perpetually licensed CS 6 call in at whatever frequency is reasonable to them. I paid and will gladly help them enforce their licenses. If they identify a bogus installation, shut it down. What am I missing?

 

[Gary Huff]

Piracy is hideous. I'm sorry to keep pounding this but why not use the same technology that shuts down lapsed subscribers to shut down illegitimate users? It's the same installed app, right? I have no problem letting my perpetually licensed CS 6 call in at whatever frequency is reasonable to them. I paid and will gladly help them enforce their licenses. If they identify a bogus installation, shut it down. What am I missing?

Because the pirates will just circumvent that in a number of ways.

 

[keylight]

Piracy is hideous. I'm sorry to keep pounding this but why not use the same technology that shuts down lapsed subscribers to shut down illegitimate users? It's the same installed app, right? I have no problem letting my perpetually licensed CS 6 call in at whatever frequency is reasonable to them. I paid and will gladly help them enforce their licenses. If they identify a bogus installation, shut it down. What am I missing?

Because the pirates will just circumvent that in a number of ways.

Subscriptions aren't a move to stop piracy because piracy can't be stopped. At some point someone will come up with a fake authorization server application that you can install and run in the background on your computer, that'll intercept any calls to Adobe to authenticate.

Subscriptions are about one thing (from the timelapse.org article):

“Current” doesn’t mean Adobe will keep you up to date with new features. It means means you will keep Adobe up to date with your payments. Once you’re on the subscription, you’re on it for the rest of your creative life.

 

[Kenneth Fisher]

I've always preferred Vegas' workflow, and it is simply a much faster way to work. And it is an all-in-one app. The thing that drove me away from Vegas was their Sony-centric approach that started around version 8 or so. But recently they've actually had a change of heart and implemented native P2, DVCPRO, and AVC-Intra support. That gives me hope that they may finally have pulled their head out of their rectum and decided to put the needs of their customer first again, instead of trying to force the customer to adapt to what the company wants.

Which is exactly what it looks like Adobe is trying to do: force the customer to change to something that is better for the company. Not a big fan of that attitude. Companies have to understand that we are not their cattle, to be milked for their benefit. We are their EMPLOYERS, and we will pay them for a job well done, and we will fire them when they don't do what we need.

Thanks for the reply. I've always been a big fan of Vegas, and I use it almost exclusively.

I guess my real question was: why did you leave? And you answered that as well.

I wonder if this has opened the door for Sony Vegas to become a major player, and will they decide to take advantage of the opportunity?

 

[hscully]

Because the pirates will just circumvent that in a number of ways.

In any number of ways they will circumvent the subscription too I guess, unless you know some fundamental difference I'm not aware of. I think Keylight has it. It's not about piracy. In that same article he cited in another post the cost over 10 years for perpetual licensing, given the overwhelming penchant for users to upgrade every other chance, is $2600 as opposed to $6000. It's a ripoff. They can do what they want but I paid a lot of dough for this suite. I think the subscription is great, but I already threw down and for that I get a $240 discount in the first year? That stinks.

I think the subscription is great for people who want it. It's a good choice... oh right. Not a choice

 

[paulears]

I love Adobe and have been a user since version 6, supplied on loads of floppies! I usually skip a version then upgrade, but I cannot base my business on a product that can be put out of action by Adobe upping the price and me not being able to afford it and losing my software. I'm currently on CS5, and didn't consider CS6 enough extra facilities for the extra outlay. I think that as a Sony Soundforge user (and a happy one) then maybe Vegas will be getting my business. When they announced the idea of leasing/renting, whatever they wish to call it, my first reaction was I don't wish to do that, anymore than I wish to lease a van for my business. I realise it suits some people, but not me. Frankly, I also don't trust Adobe. I paid a large amount of money for a software product that they bought out, and closed down the registration server, so it sits on an old computer, that is on it's last legs, and when it dies, $1500 of software becomes useless. Adobe seemed to think that this amount of money for just three years use was good value. I also love the idea that as a registered user, they don't actually contact you and tell you this. I do remember them doing a survey asking if having a subscription would be a good move - but there was no mention of it being the ONLY choice. I accept that they get pirated - but that does seem a fact of life, and I really can't see businesses relying on pirate software? These pirates will soon figure out how to fix this, so I suspect it could actually work out worse for them. I think it stinks!

 

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

I'm not sure I'm following your reasoning. After the purchase of your first suite (although I'd guess that like most of us you've had a suite for quite a few years), you could upgrade to each new major version (every 2-3 years based on their schedule) for less than a 1 year of the subscription price. And you could even spread that out over a credit card if you needed to. At $500 for the upgrade over 12 months of payments at 20% interest per year, it would be take you 12 months at $51/month. The next 12 months of using the product would basically be free - a savings of $600 over the subscription.

As it was, I would often skip updating to the next version, only update every other, or every 3rd. So, it is 'costing' me more over the long haul than in your scenario. As for putting the cost of initial buy plus per major update costs on a card... I tend to put 'hardware' on cards... if I have to. That's with the expectation for some hardware, like, cameras, I'm going to be using it regularly for 5-6, or more years, depending. Computers seem to be squeaking in a about 3-4 years... so perhaps I should 'rent/least' those... Then there's the issue of credit... if one does not have 'credit', then leasing/credit-cards are not an option, and outright purchase is too expensive... the 'rental' as it is today seems to be a solution.

Now of course if the 'rental' bumps up to $100/month... perhaps I'll be looking for my old CS5 disks... and with my luck, Mac OS X will have 'changed', rendering those disks useless... so I'll have to roll back to a version that works... that or look at Lightworks... for at least editing... and maybe Blender for an After Effects .... -ish... program..., GIMP for images, and Ardour for audio...

 

[hscully]

I would not have bought this software if I knew this was coming. From where I'm sitting, they decided to drop the product I had invested in. It's a bait and switch. I'm pissed. "We don't make brakes for that car anymore... just drive it until it stops stopping." Great! I just can't support this company. They're jerks to do that.

I could have joined the subscription model. I didn't want to. I like the subscription model for people who don't want to pay the upfront cost. Great! I used it one month for Captivate because I needed it for a job. Great! I didn't want to buy it and I could pass it through.

I like this software a lot. Worse, I spent hours of effort and more money on learning how to use it. How do I get that back with the money I plunked down for the software and the upgrade I paid for? I guess it goes up on the shelf with FC 7. ... great....

 

[keylight]

Gosh.... I was looking back at old threads on this topic and I found this one from over two years ago, where I posted these:

I never get it when I see people commenting, "no one is forcing you" or "don't assume" to other people's posts. Of course no one is forcing or assuming.

Well, that's pretty much changed. The charts I posted in the thread (and copied below) had the higher $85/month charge for Creative Suite. At $49 the trend isn't as dramatic, but it's still there. But... Don't forget that when they first started with this that's what they wanted - $85/month. How long until they start asking for that again?

Already Own + Every Upgrade VS Annual Subsctiption @ $85/month:


Buy New + Every Upgrade VS Annual Subsctiption @ $85/month:


Buy New + Skip every other Upgrade VS Annual Subsctiption @ $85/month:


Already Own + Skip every other Upgrade VS Annual Subsctiption @ $85/month:

[/QUOTE]

 

[SPZ]

Gosh.... I was looking back at old threads on this topic and I found this one from over two years ago, where I posted these:



Well, that's pretty much changed. The charts I posted in the thread (and copied below) had the higher $85/month charge for Creative Suite. At $49 the trend isn't as dramatic, but it's still there. But... Don't forget that when they first started with this that's what they wanted - $85/month. How long until they start asking for that again?

Already Own + Every Upgrade VS Annual Subsctiption @ $85/month:
View attachment 70876

Buy New + Every Upgrade VS Annual Subsctiption @ $85/month:
View attachment 70877

Buy New + Skip every other Upgrade VS Annual Subsctiption @ $85/month:
View attachment 70875

Already Own + Skip every other Upgrade VS Annual Subsctiption @ $85/month:
View attachment 70874

[/QUOTE]

Excellent post. Sums up everything