Adobe Premiere

ELN614 said:
Seems the screws are already tightening. To skip a version never costed full price. Plus version to version changes were more time based vs feature based. They did it to make money. I found few features were added unless it was just to keep up with competition or file types. Adobe never had leap & bounds version changes worth paying full price. I am still wating for a superior transcoding from 1080i or 1080p to MPEG2-DVD. If Adobe can make my DVD look as good as my HD footage (as I see from Hollywood DVDs on the shelf) I'll upgrade.
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I've never used Adobe's products to create DVDs so I can't comment on their quality but I think it's a tall order to ask Adobe to create an easy to use software solution that is on par with what Hollywood uses. Hollywood DVDs, like you are wanting to emulate, are created by experienced compressionists using high end DVD creation software and hardware (which costs way more than any Adobe suite) and the master material they start with is probably much higher quality than what you start with.
 
ELN614 said:
I am still wating for a superior transcoding from 1080i or 1080p to MPEG2-DVD. If Adobe can make my DVD look as good as my HD footage (as I see from Hollywood DVDs on the shelf) I'll upgrade.
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You serious? Well, are you doing dual-layer dvd's? Are you encoding properly? Did you do the downsize from SD to HD properly? I have made commercial discs with Encore and the available tools and I don't think Hollywood DVD's look much better at all. They look just as bad.
 
adkimery said:
Adobe doesn't allow upgrades from software that old anymore. For example, to get the upgrade price for CS6 you'd need to own qualifying apps from CS 5 or CS 5.5. To move from CS 4 or CS 3 to CS 6 would require you to pay full retail price. People buying software then only paying an upgrade price every 3 or 4 years is something Adobe is trying to get away from. The subscription model wouldn't be viable if people could skip multiple versions (or buy an old, used version off ebay) and only pay the upgrade price to get the latest version.
-Andrew
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Nope . . . That's wrong . . . CS3 or later.
From Adobe's website:

"Terms and Conditions

VOID WHERE PROHIBITED OR RESTRICTED BY LAW. Eligible customers may purchase an annual membership to Adobe® Creative Cloud™ for a reduced price. Offer valid for purchases of an annual plan, which requires a 12-month contract. This offer is only available to customers who own a Creative Suite edition or individual product, version CS3 or later (CS3.x, CS4, CS5.x, or CS6), and who purchase directly from the Adobe Store or by calling a regional Adobe Call Center. This offer is not available to Education, OEM, or volume licensing customers. Residents of embargoed countries are not eligible. This offer is limited to one (1) purchase of one (1) Creative Cloud annual membership per customer. Offer is subject to U.S. export control laws and laws where the recipient resides. Offer may not be assigned, exchanged, sold, transferred, or combined with any other discount or offer, or redeemed for cash or other goods and services. This offer and prices are subject to change without notice. Void where prohibited or restricted by law."
 
dregenthal said:
Nope . . . That's wrong . . . CS3 or later.
From Adobe's website:

"Terms and Conditions

VOID WHERE PROHIBITED OR RESTRICTED BY LAW. Eligible customers may purchase an annual membership to Adobe® Creative Cloud™ for a reduced price. Offer valid for purchases of an annual plan, which requires a 12-month contract. This offer is only available to customers who own a Creative Suite edition or individual product, version CS3 or later (CS3.x, CS4, CS5.x, or CS6), and who purchase directly from the Adobe Store or by calling a regional Adobe Call Center. This offer is not available to Education, OEM, or volume licensing customers. Residents of embargoed countries are not eligible. This offer is limited to one (1) purchase of one (1) Creative Cloud annual membership per customer. Offer is subject to U.S. export control laws and laws where the recipient resides. Offer may not be assigned, exchanged, sold, transferred, or combined with any other discount or offer, or redeemed for cash or other goods and services. This offer and prices are subject to change without notice. Void where prohibited or restricted by law."
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No, I'm right. What you quoted applies to getting a discount on your first year of your Creative Cloud subscription. I was talking about just buying a new copy of CS 6. If you go to Adobe's website and click to buy CS6 you need CS5 or CS5.5 in order to get the upgrade price. If you have anything older you pay full retail price.

From Adobe:
"
I own a previous version of a Creative Suite product or suite edition. Do I get a discount if I upgrade to the latest version?

Owners of a CS5 or CS5.5 suite edition qualify for upgrade pricing to a CS6 suite edition. Owners of an individual CS5 or CS5.5 product qualify for upgrade pricing to the same product but not to a suite edition. Any version earlier than CS5 will not be eligible for upgrade pricing."


-Andrew
 
The bottom line is, no company should take a option away from customer, Avid tried that when they start the new activation system by eliminating dongle, but, they played smart and they start listening to complaints, Now they have both options available. It is definitely a wrong move for Adobe. This is just my opinion. If that is the only option I have, I will be on CS6 until becomes obsolete.
 
Regarding the upgrade price . . . My bad, I didn't realize you we're talking about the box.
But then I can't think of anyone that permits you to jump 3-4 versions (what is CS3, seven years old?) at the same price as people that have made at least some investment in more current product along the way.
(and I can't imagine what current video files you're able to process in CS3 anyway . . . mostly because I can't remember that far back).

Wasn't looking to start (or continue) an argument . . .
I own every box through CS6 and typically don't upgrade until I see a definitive need but last year while on an extended away tour experienced a problem with my laptop (while separated by some distance from my install discs), and found the subscription to be a lifesaver (for me). That was 7 months ago and I'm looking forward to the next release.

No argument, it's not for everyone.

P.S. I don't think I'd be modeling myself after Avid . . .
 
Here is what I don't like. Right now I'm liking Premiere a lot. Next year I decide that another editing software is what I need because maybe Adobe pulls a Apple move and makes me not want to use it anymore. Since I don't own the program I now can't open legacy projects.
Today I have FCP7 still installed and I still use it for legacy projects. I have moved some of the projects to Premiere with XML but it's not perfect. If I was renting FCP7 then I'm screwed or I have to keep paying for it and not use the other options.
 
:Edit: Ha, I opened up this tab earlier today and just posted, but Eric posted pretty much the same thing.

I'm not really on either side of the fence. Do I like the always connected idea? Not really. Do I think it will be a big problem, or certainly an insurmountable one to anyone that really wants to use the software? No. I have been doing work in 3rd world countries recently (Cambodia, Liberia, Kenya) and have had limited access to internet. But every place I've been I would have been able to get some internet at some point if I needed to (and did when I did need to). Through phones if nothing else. There really are phones with medium to high speed internet just about everywhere. Otherwise, satellite internet is an option if you're long term.

What I'm more worried about is what happens when I have all my projects in Premiere, After Effects, Photoshop, etc, and then the price starts going up on the subscription. $35, then it's $40. Then it's $50. Like has been said before, if I "owned" the software (I know I don't technically own it, but for all intents and purposes you do) I could continue to stay on the version I was on until it was obsolete and then I'd have to switch, but I could always go back and use old version of Premiere Pro to open my old files.

This is an EXTREMELY real situation as I currently do that with Pinnacle Liquid Edition. It is OLD, and it was always clunky, and I didn't like it, but that's what my company had at the time when I came on in 2004. I used it from 2004-2007 before switching to Premiere. I still have all the old original footage and projects, and we have to go the archives probably about 3 or 4 times a year to pull up an old project.

There is no way I would have the time to convert all those old projects. Now I have the raw footage, I could put something new back together, but that is time wasted, when I've already edited something. This is my argument against. Yeah, I can adjust, I will if I have to. That's a long ways down the road, and I'm not terribly worried, but it is a legitimate concern.
 
There is a solution (though you probably won't like it, and I understand why). Buy a month's subscription. For the entire suite it's $75. Individual programs are substantially cheaper. Steep, yes, but it is a solution. And if you're having to go back to to reopen a project for a client, bill accordingly. Not perfect, I know. Or even close to it. Buuuuuuut... it is a solution.

Or, if you intend to switch to another NLE, wouldn't it be possible to buy a stand alone upgrade for $350 (or whatever), and use that for pulling up archived stuff? I'm asking, because I sincerely don't know.
 
dregenthal said:
Regarding the upgrade price . . . My bad, I didn't realize you we're talking about the box.
But then I can't think of anyone that permits you to jump 3-4 versions (what is CS3, seven years old?) at the same price as people that have made at least some investment in more current product along the way.
(and I can't imagine what current video files you're able to process in CS3 anyway . . . mostly because I can't remember that far back).

Wasn't looking to start (or continue) an argument . . .
I own every box through CS6 and typically don't upgrade until I see a definitive need but last year while on an extended away tour experienced a problem with my laptop (while separated by some distance from my install discs), and found the subscription to be a lifesaver (for me). That was 7 months ago and I'm looking forward to the next release.

No argument, it's not for everyone.

P.S. I don't think I'd be modeling myself after Avid . . .
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FCP used to allow that. I am someone who skipped upgrades which is one reason
i like the 'buy' option better. I don't upgrade until I see a compelling reason for me .
I went from FCP 4 to 7 and there was one upgrade price for previous owners. I
paid the same as the guy who upgraded from 4 to 5 from 5 to 6 and now wanted to
upgrade to 7.

Much like Avid's referenced 'dongle' decision, I have no doubts
this is Adobe's attempt to combat piracy, and this is why I could
see them go entirely to the cloud in the future.
 
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Yeah, I probably should not have stated my opinion so strongly or at least maybe shared a bit more information. As has been said here many times already . . . the subscription is not a solution for everyone.

I started with Premiere about a million years ago. Did Pinnacle, and Matrox, and then (whatever, I can’t even remember what else). Tried FCP X when it was first introduced but we weren’t ready for each other so I bailed on that.

In addition to Premiere I have licensed (current) versions of Edius Broadcast, and Avid MC. I used to swear by Edius because they had it down—you could throw multiple different formats on the timeline and it just worked (long before Adobe went that way). Avid? I probably didn’t invest enough time into it (got tired of having to stand on one leg, close an eye and stick my tongue out in order to make it behave like a product that was interested in what I wanted to do) . . . and just became spoiled with how easy it is to flip everything back and forth between the different modules in Adobe CS, and gave up on Avid too.

Blazer003 said, “and then the price starts going up on the subscription. $35, then it's $40. Then it's $50.”
And he’s right! The $29.99 deal is a limited opportunity . . . I bought in knowing it’ll be $50 after my first year subscription expires (which for me will be this Fall). But, in my case that doesn’t really matter because while I can’t track it all the way back I can say with some certainty that I’ve probably averaged pretty close to $600 a year over the past few years for the boxed upgrades anyhow . . . so it’s kind of a “six of one, half-dozen of the other” the way I see it.

Even during quiet times my business can justify spending $50 a month for the kind of tools I get with the suite. Fortunately (for me) I don’t often find my travel taking me to places where I won’t have reasonable access to the internet . . . I suppose I could connect using my cell (or just contact Adobe in advance . . . I’d bet they’re prepared for those eventualities).

Bottom line is that we vote with our wallets . . . and while corporates job is to lever their product to maximize profits I think that Adobe is the 800 lb. elephant in the room and would like to stay there. As long as they are able to justify their product to me (and it does what I need it to do) then I’m in . . . boxed or subscription. If, however, they experience a change in management style and get greedy . . . well, then there are other options.
 
Blazer003 said, “and then the price starts going up on the subscription. $35, then it's $40. Then it's $50.”
And he’s right! The $29.99 deal is a limited opportunity . . . I bought in knowing it’ll be $50 after my first year subscription expires (which for me will be this Fall). But, in my case that doesn’t really matter because while I can’t track it all the way back I can say with some certainty that I’ve probably averaged pretty close to $600 a year over the past few years for the boxed upgrades anyhow . . . so it’s kind of a “six of one, half-dozen of the other” the way I see it.
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i don't think that the price is going to get higher in future, if not stated in the contract you sign when starting this cloud membership, it will be like your phone contract. does your monthly phone bill get higher by time? no, because it's a contract where you agree to pay 29,99 monthly for the first year, and then pay 50 bucks for the following years.

i can understand all of the concerns having to be connected to the internet once per 30 days though...
 
There will be resistance no doubt..but anyone who thinks they will never raise the price once they reel people in is being really......ehhhhhhhh.........optimistic will be the word I settle on.
 
stefanhuberfilms said:
Thanks!

well, doesn't that eliminate this issue completely? anybody here who isn't connected to the net once in a half year?
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Spent 4 months in Pakistan without internet access. I might be going to Antarctica next October (2014) for shooting a doc- most likely 5 months out of civilization. I am so glad I just switched to FCPX almost 2 years ago. Cloud is pretty much a non-starter for any remote work.
 
I thought they would do this but I didn't think it would be this soon. I was thinking they would have come out with CS7 first.

Again my issue is not "hooking up to the internet"... My problem is that once you stop paying Adobe you will not have any thing that works.
Maybe it's just me but that is a major issue.
 
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