Adjusting audio levels

HBlack

HBlack

Underage Member
I'm not sure how loud to make background noise. I'm editing a conversation, where a TV is playing in the background. I'm listening to it using headphones (cheap, but decent in ear noise cancelling ones) and lowering the volume of the TV so that it's barely audible, so as not to distract from the conversation. However, when I listen to it through computer speakers, it's hardly noticeable at all.

Should I lean towards raising it so that it'll be noticeable through most speakers, or keep it so that it's perfect when listening with headphones? I know hooking it up to a good set of speakers would be best, but I don't have the means to do that at the moment.
 
Without proper monitors in a room that is set up for it, you are going to fly blind. You will just have to experiment by making mixes and playing them on different devices you audience might listen on like a tv, laptop and computer speakers.
 
It really depends on your release and distribution format. If you're releasing on a portable video format that exclusively uses in-ear noise-cancellation headphones, then you're in good shape. Otherwise, you'd better check your mix on a set of reference monitors.

Headphones will exaggerate perspectives and low-level noise, and consumer headphones in particular will radically change the tonal character of your program audio. The noise-cancellation feature of your headphones makes them particularly ill-suited to critical listenning, since environmental noise cancellation proccesses will almost invariably introduce artifacts and innacuracies into the playback. If you really want to edit and mix on headphones, invest in a pair of Sony MDR-7506. In the absence of reference monitors, a pair of 7506's are a must-have. Most computer speakers are close to useless for editing and mixing; they'll tell you that there's some audio on the track, but that's about it. There are plenty of nice entry-level reference monitors on the market, many of which are specifically designed for small editing suites. The next time you're in Toronto, stop by Long and McQuade's Bloor St. branch, and check out their speaker showroom. If you can swing about $300, you can pick up a pair of Yorkville YSM1P's, which should do the job quite nicely.

However, you should really look at taking your sound edit session to a mix theatre for a final mix. If you can do maybe 90% of the sound editting and pre-mixing at home, the final pass in a properly set up room will be money well spent.
 
In saving up for a new camera, I really don't have money to throw around at the moment. I suppose I'll do the initial mix with my headphones, burn it to a DVD and listen to it through my home theatre system, and then adjust it from there.

Unless anyone else has any other ideas?
 
If your home theater system is going to be your reference point, why not use your home theater system for the mix? Wouldn't it be easier to move your workstation into you living room rather than transcoding a DVD every time you want to check a mix decision?

A carefully set up home theater system will not be as accurate as carefully set up reference monitors, but it'll be significantly better than consumer headphones or multimedia speakers. Just be very careful setting your sub-woofer level.
 
That's a good idea, actually. I think that's what I'll end up doing. Thanks.

And for $100, I'll probably end up picking up a pair of 7506s eventually.

Also, is premiere good enough for sound mixing? I'm talking only about adjusting the volumes. I have audition, but I don't think I'm nearly good enough with it to use it for sound, unless it's any better than premiere when it comes to basic adjusting levels.
 
HBlack said:
Also, is premiere good enough for sound mixing? I'm talking only about adjusting the volumes. I have audition, but I don't think I'm nearly good enough with it to use it for sound, unless it's any better than premiere when it comes to basic adjusting levels.
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Mixing with Premiere is kind of like using a crescent wrench to drive nails: its possible, but it'll take longer and you won't have the control needed to really finesse the project.

There's a lot more to mixing than simply adjusting the playback level of a couple of tracks; EQ and compression are real chores in Premiere, and both are essential tools in any mix. You will also have a hard time executing any particularly delicate edits, since most NLE software will not let you get any tighter than the frame bountaries (whereas most audio software is is accurate to within a couple of samples). If possible, migrate the project into software designed for sound editing and mixing. It may well be quicker to learn another software application than it would be to mix within Premiere.
 
Mixing audio using a video editing software is sort of like me cutting picture with Pro Tools. Yes I can make basic cuts and move around the footage, but I don't have the tools to really finesse the video to make a great reel. That and the fact that I'm not a picture editor and would have no idea what the hell I am doing!

As far as mixing on headphones, that is not a good idea for a number of reasons. One of the main reasons is that because the drivers are so close to your ears, you will end up cutting out more frequencies with EQ and the levels will probably not balance the way that you expect. In your example with the TV, you may end up lowering the TV a bit more because you hear it so well in the headphones.

Okay that is the end of my preaching. If you have to mix with headphones, Sound on Sound magazine had an article on that exact topic in their January 2007 article. The article is aimed more at mixing music, but that may help.

-Brad
 
Thanks for the help. This is starting to sound a bit over my head, but I'll look into what would be involved in mixing in a better program.

Just so I can keep it in one thread:
I had to shoot in a basement, and because of the background noise that couldn't be prevented (heating, plumbing, etc) there's a fair bit of background noise in the audio. I've tried to cross dissolve the audio tracks to make the inconsistency less noticeable and add room tone where needed, but it's still there. I've been thinking of doing ADR on everything... but it seems to me that potentially less than perfect ADR work might be worse than attempting to deal with noisy tracks.

What do you suggest?

Also, just so I can stop asking questions and start doing some of the work for myself, can anyone suggest some information sources on audio editing and workflow, preferably with the adobe creative suite.
 
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I do not see why Premiere could not be used for fairly complicated audio mixing and adjustement. I use PPro 1.5 and have maybe checked less than 25% of all possible effects available for audio; some filtering, compression and mixdown has been enough for the two TV documentaries and some smaller stuff I have made with it. Newer versions should be even more capable.

Premiere has a huge palette of effects, automated mixing, many routing possibilties with subtracks, surround audio, whatnot. I dare to say very few on this board even undestands more than 10% of all possibilities Premiere alone offers.

Summa summarum: good enough for 99% of us, true pros have their Protools (if you need to mix 200 tracks...)
 
You're right Petrus in that I'm not very familiar with Premiere so I could be wrong about it's usefulness. Can you use third party plug-ins in Premiere? That would be cool so that you are not limited to the EQs and compressors that are bundled with the software. Most of my limited video experience has been with FCP which doesn't allow edits smaller than a frame which limits its usefulness.

To try to answer your other question HBlack, it depends on the nature of the noise in the room. If it is mostly low end sounds or buzzes, you might be able to filter and notch some of those out to make them less noticeable. If the noise is fairly steady, ie it doesn't change in pitch and is fairly consistent in level, you might be able to use some of the noise reduction plug-ins that it seems every software has. Play around with the settings, use a light touch in removing the noise, and you might be able to make it work without ADR.

I recommend the book Dialogue Editing for Motion Pictures to learn more. All of the pictures in the book are with Pro Tools, but his advice is not PT centric.

Hope that helps.

-Brad
 
Petrus,

Pretty silly statement. 99.9% of editing sound does not involve FX. No NLE is as capable as a DAW for editing sound. And what does peoples understanding of applications they don't use have to do with it? I will admit I know a lot less that 10% of PP's "possibilities". I know that it doesn't play well with others in post. I have hears some work done in it, but to be fair I can't tell you if it was the application or the lack of experience/ knowledge of the editor that led to the bad sound tracks. I can say that I don't think I have ever heard a good sound track that was done in a NLE. But if your doing doc's and industrials that may not make that much difference. If your trying to do narrative films it does make a difference.

You don't need to have 200 tracks to need ProTools, most NLE's start bogging down over 10-20 tracks. That isn't nearly enough to give you a quality narrative track and though you can get away with a less finished track on some projects, why get by when you can shine. I've done a lot of documentaries, a good track helps.
 
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