Adding Pulldown???  

Staven

Staven

Well-known member
Okay, here's the scenario:

Filled my entire hard drives up while cutting a film together. I had so much footage, and also did adr through cam which took up lots of space. Was editing on a 23.98 timeline with 24padvanced footage that had it's pulldown removed. Decided I would media manage the film so as to free up a bunch of space. I was scared to do this as I had never done it before, so I printed to tape each sequence that made up my film.(I did not to my knowledge have the RT settings at 2:3:3:2, most probably at the 2:4 setting-which may have been my downfall?) I had been told by someone on this site a long time ago that Final Cut recognized pulldown and would automatically put it back in when you printed to tape. So I backed up my entire show onto tapes then media managed.(I printed the tapes through the Print to Tape function and it was set at Full Quality).

Everything seemed to work fine, so I went about deleting clips. Once the entire original clips were gone along with a ton of render files it came to my attention that the media manager didn't have every clip of the movie, over 1/4 throughout the film were not there.

Luckily I backed it up. So I re captured the sequences... but they have no pulldown on them, they are strictly 29.97 sequences. The pulldown was not put back in I'd assume. Everything runs fine, and looks fine EXCEPT, frames cross over from cut to cut making a combo of two frames on one frame every so often. It isn't noticeable on a computer monitor, but on a T.V. it stands out, sometimes just barely, but it just seems like a flash between cuts.

What can I do to fix this? I've tried going through cinema tools, but it only lets me remove pulldown. I'm at a loss, need some Final Cut gurus to show me the way!!!
 
Re: Adding Pulldown???  

Re: Adding Pulldown???  

Your recapture should have repeated the same pulldown but it sounds like the system settings were different. It's a little difficult to tell exactly what your setup is.

Select clip in the bin and do a Tools >Analyze Movie > clip.
Check it's frame rate. Now select the sequence in the bin and do a Sequence > Sequence settings to see what it is.

If the clips and the sequence are 29.97 then you won't be adding pulldown but if the original camera was 24pa it won't be the smoothest on final output.
 
Re: Adding Pulldown???  

Re: Adding Pulldown???  

[quote author=Stabb Films link=board=FCP;num=1090034087;start=0#0 date=07/16/04 at 20:14:47]Luckily I backed it up.  So I re captured the sequences... but they have no pulldown on them, they are strictly 29.97 sequences.  The pulldown was not put back in I'd assume.  Everything runs fine, and looks fine EXCEPT, frames cross over from cut to cut making a combo of two frames on one frame every so often.  It isn't noticeable on a computer monitor, but on a T.V. it stands out, sometimes just barely, but it just seems like a flash between cuts.

What can I do to fix this?  I've tried going through cinema tools, but it only lets me remove pulldown.  I'm at a loss, need some Final Cut gurus to show me the way!!![/quote]
When you recaptured, what capture setting did you use? I recommend capturing with NTSC DV setting in order to check your pulldown.

The "ripped" frames you are seeing ARE the PULLDOWN frames. You will need to remove the pulldown to work in 24P sequences again.
Pulldown is necessary in an NTSC signal carrying 24P footage because NTSC only works at 29.97fps. Therefore FCP always creates a pulldown for you on the fly on the firwire NTSC output. When you are editing, it will use the pulldown of your choice to preview on NTSC: 3:2 (normal teleciné), 2:3:3:2 (24P advanced), or 2:2:2:4 (a FCP only option for computers with low processing power.)
The question is, what TYPE of pulldown do you have on your tape? If it is 2:3 or 2:3:3:2, then you can simply remove it. I doubt it is 2:2:2:4, because that pattern doesn't use ripped frames.
Review page 1444 of Vol III of the FCP manual, and pages 195, 201-202 of the Cinema Tools manual for illustrations of the patterns.

Let's determine 3:2 or Advanced pulldown:
To check your pulldown pattern, open a 29.97 digitized clip, have your NTSC monitor turned on. Advance frame by frame until you get to your first "ripped" frame (each field representing a different frame.) Now count how many ripped frames you get and how many solid frames you get.
If you have 1 ripped frame, and then 4 solid frames, you have 2:3:3:2 advanced pulldown. Move on to step A.
If you have 2 ripped and then 3 solid repeating pattern, you have a 3:2 pulldown pattern. You will need to use Cinema Tools to remove 3:2 pulldown. Move on to step B.


A) If your footage is 2:3:3:2 advanced pulldown, then attempt to remove it by hilighting the clips in the bin and using Remove Advanced Pulldown from the Tools menu. Your clips should now become 23.98 clips again. This may not work since the cadence information may not be embedded in the video signal from the FCP output.
If you can't remove the pulldown in FCP, you will need to use cinema Tools. Just open CT, and use Batch reverse telecine and select one of your clips. If you need to save space, select "smaller" files, but I would recommend making "new" files. Now use your new 23.98 clips to continue editing in 23.98.

B) If your clips are 3:2 pulldown, Open Cinema Tools (click "cancel" load database) and then "Open Clip." You need to determine which "film" frame (A,B,C, or D) is the first frame. This is pretty easy since the "A" frame is always two frames before the first "ripped" ("B/C") frame (in either pattern.)
If the first and second frames are solid, and the third is ripped, then the first frame is the "A" frame (aka "AA")
If the first frame of the clip is solid, and the second one is ripped, then the first frame must be a "B" (aka "BB")
If the first one is ripped, and the second one is also ripped, then the first frame is "BC"
If the first one is ripped and the second one is solid, the first frame is "CD"
If there are 3 solid frames, and then a ripped, the first frame is "DD"

Next, click the "Reverse teleciné" button, set your field order to F2-F1 (DV is lower field first), set the frame rate to 23.98, make sure "standard upper/lower in checkmarked, and select the starting frame (AA, BB, BC, CD, or DD.) Click OK, and CT will make a new clip for you.
Open each clip separately and repeat the step above. Now reimport your new 23.98 clips and continue editing.

I'll keep an eye on this thread to see how you make out.

Tim
 
Re: Adding Pulldown???  

Re: Adding Pulldown???  

First off, I'd like to thank you Tim for taking the time to give such a detailed response to my post. It is greatly appreciated.

So...

I tried counting "rips" to normal frames ratio, but really it is just between cuts from clip to clip. Say when shot 1 cuts to shot 2 thats the only time it takes place(if it takes place during shot 1 a bunch of times, I can't tell until a cut), the pattern is really tough to follow, as it seems to be almost random.

It will not let me do 2:3:3:2 pulldown. Anytime I open up any type of reverse telecine, it automatically says "remove 3:2 pulldown". Which, leads me to believe it's the 3:2 I need to remove.

So I tried a few tests using the formula you provided, only I just went about trying the different A, B etc. configurations as I'm not sure which one it is. When i switched the capture mode to F2-F1, it gave me the following field selections: AB, BB_, _CC_, _DD, DA. It also only allowed me to select New(smaller) for the file, and I did have the standard upper lower selected and 23.98.

So I picked a sequence I know has ripped frames and 3:2 reversed it using the AB as it was first in line... and it worked!!!

But... to open a whole new can of worms, my new 23.98 .rev clip is not anamorphic. It is stuck in squeeze mode. Any idea how to remedy that?

And to make things more interesting(complicated). I tried using the same settings for another sequence and it didn't work. So I went through all of them and DA field worked. Also squeezed mode.

(note that when viewing the .rev files in Cinematools they appear to be 16:9)

So, know of any way to get the files to be anamorphic in Final Cut?
Any idea of why I need to use different field settings to fix different clips?
And I guess the big original question... why do I have ripped frames on my master tapes I made using the Print to Video function on Final Cut(when my preference was print Full Quality)?

Thanks again for your help so far, and from viewing previous post replies you've put on this section of the forum, we are lucky to have you aboard.
 
Re: Adding Pulldown???  

Re: Adding Pulldown???  

Weird stuff... playing around with sequence settings. If I open a 23.98 non anamorphic sequence onto the timeline and put in the .rev file. It goes in as a 4:3 image squeezed. If I then click on the sequence section on the top, then open the settings, change the setting to anamorphic in there, I get my clip as anamorphic. I then tried to drop another .rev clip into this timeline and it stayed squeezed. So, I have an odd way to have anamorphic clips if I can't do it the regular way.
 
Re: Adding Pulldown???  

Re: Adding Pulldown???  

Hi Stabb,

To tell FCP a clip is anamorphic, just put a "checkmark" in the anamorphic column of the bin for each re-imported .rev clip. This won't necessarily change it if it has already been edited into a 16x9 sequence, when FCP thought it was a 4x3 clip. In that case, just double-click the clip, go to motion, and "reset" the distort.

Your pulldown order is weird. Maybe it is something like 2:2:2:4, but I don't know why there are ripped frames then? I'm glad you are making progress though.


Tim
 
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