Act I->II Turning Point : % ?

[wcmartell]

Act 2 begins when the protagonist is locked in the conflict - haven't seen SIXTH SENSE in years, but somewhere in before the kid sees dead people, Willis probably realizes he must help this kid to gain redeption for the other kid show shot him and then killed himself.

The first time I saw SIXTH SENSE was at a test screening where I pretended I was not involved in the film biz. And the audience was bored to tears until the kid says "I see dead people" halfway through. The trailers for the film "fixed this" by using that line - so that the audience knows the kid sees dead people and Willis does not... creating suspense: when will Willis figure out the kid's not wacky, he's haunted?

What's important isn't when THE SIXTH SENSE's act 2 kicks in, it's when *your* act 2 kicks in.

- Bill

 

[Randall_Oelerich]

Hmm. I just gave Cellular a read, I see classic story structuring in it, not sure what you meant by a straight Act I to Act II, but here is how I see Cellular: (in its simplest sense, this is a story of a knight rescuing a princess in the tower)

I see Cellular as having a great opening HOOK (Jessica/the 'Princess' is kidnapped and taken and held hostage in a remote attic/'tower'; classic 5 page Hook sequence), then on page 5 we are introduced to the main PROTAGONIST, Ryan, who besides being in need of romance has his life completely thrown off balance by the classic INCITING INCIDENT that happens on page 11 (classic 10% mark, as this is a 113 page script) when he gets a call on his cell phone from Jessica who is held hostage in an attic but who has hot wired some land phone line to randomly call Ryan. Jessica must convince Ryan she is not a prank caller, asks him to go to the police, and then ACT I to ACT II happens on page 23 (of a 113 page shooting script, so the 20% mark, damn close to a classic 25% mark) when Ryan can't go into the police building (one signal bar on the phone, if he does he loses her call and she dies) and must begin his GOAL of rescuing Jessica (dare I say we have a 'Knight on a quest to rescue the Princess from the tower'?) on his own (his Hero's Journey quest truly begins). Jessica is the princess who needs rescuing (much like the daughter in Taken), Ryan is the primary protagonist, Jessica is an Attractor Archetype; rescuing her becomes Ryan's 'want', his goal. That is my take on Cellular, using more standard story structure.

"Cellular" is another movie that went straight from Act I to Act II - zip..

 

[Randall_Oelerich]

So true. I read Halloween just a few weeks ago. It struck me at how looooooong into the script it was (after the opening hook) until Michael Myers got down to business with his knife. Almost the entire movie was just Michael in the shadows, or wondering if and where he was, what he might be about to do. Suspense. Very short compressed climax with killings. But I bet most people think they remember the film as Michael stabbing people left and right during much of the movie.

I'm sometimes amazed at how we remember things, vs. how they actually were. Remember "Home Alone"? How much of that 103-minute film was spent on the burglars in the house, and Kevin duking it out with them? Or "Alien" -- at what point in the film did the alien burst out of the dude's chest?

 

[CallaghanFilms]

Raiders' second act starts the instant Indy's gun is tossed into the suitcase ("...Besides, you know what a cautious fellow I am...")

For The Sixth Sense, Barry is spot on. When we see Bruce sitting on the bench (passage of time after being shot), we also see the second act beginning...

 

[agcohn]

Raiders' second act starts the instant Indy's gun is tossed into the suitcase ("...Besides, you know what a cautious fellow I am...")

For The Sixth Sense, Barry is spot on. When we see Bruce sitting on the bench (passage of time after being shot), we also see the second act beginning...

I have to disagree again. That is still set-up at that point. Malcolm hasn't even met Cole. It can't be the Act II, because we don't even know what the story is about.

 

[Randall_Oelerich]

I have to disagree again. That is still set-up at that point. Malcolm hasn't even met Cole. It can't be the Act II, because we don't even know what the story is about.

LOL. We can all agree we disagree :nads: on this debate, that is for sure! I say we all meet up for a paintball battle, :kali: settle it on the field, hehe!
randall

 

[Nektonic]

Or "Alien" -- at what point in the film did the alien burst out of the dude's chest?

About the midpoint I believe.

ACT I: basic setup, crew waking up from hypersleep

Inciting Incident: crew of Nostromo being ordered to investigate strange signal

ACT II: after landing and entering derelict alien craft, Kane is attacked by the facehugger, the "debate" period is when Dallas is arguing with Ripley about bringing Kane and their new little friend back on board. ACT II officially begins when Ash opens the airlock for the away team.

ACT II Midpoint: chestburster scene

ACT III: after Ash tries to murder Ripley, she decides that she and the rest of the crew (Parker, Lambert, & Jones the cat) are going to gather up supplies for the escape shuttle and set the self destruction sequence to blow up the Nostromo.

 

[Barry_Green]

I have to disagree again. That is still set-up at that point. Malcolm hasn't even met Cole. It can't be the Act II, because we don't even know what the story is about.

The story isn't "about" Cole at all. The story is about Bruce and his relationship with his wife. His workaholic relationship that ignores her. And the conclusion of the film is the resolving of that situation. Bruce "fixes" people and their relationships, and Cole helps him fix himself. Even if it is "too late."

Act 1: bruce and his wife.
Act 2: bruce and cole.
Act 3: resolution.

 

[Barry_Green]

About the midpoint I believe.

You are 100% correct. Blew my mind when I timed it out years and years ago, because if you ask anyone, they'd say that the stalking of the alien is what act II is all about. But the first appearance of the alien (and the first hint of any real danger) doesn't even happen until act II is halfway over!

Same thing with Home Alone. People think that the battle against the burglars takes up half the film. In reality, it's 10 minutes. Out of a 103-minute film, 10 minutes is spent on that battle, the other 93 minutes is on Kevin and his relationship with his family and such.

 

[agcohn]

The story isn't "about" Cole at all. The story is about Bruce and his relationship with his wife. His workaholic relationship that ignores her. And the conclusion of the film is the resolving of that situation. Bruce "fixes" people and their relationships, and Cole helps him fix himself. Even if it is "too late."

Act 1: bruce and his wife.
Act 2: bruce and cole.
Act 3: resolution.

But what you are talking about is just the B-Story (Theme) of the film.

The film's Plot is about Malcolm helping Cole get over his fear of the ghosts.

 

[Barry_Green]

Well, I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this. I will just say that I am very comfortable with my assessment of Sixth Sense's story structure.

 

[Bob Gruen]

Personally, i think a lot of these methods are outdated. Cinema isn't on it's own planet. We have the internet now. Kids are growing up watching media that follows no rhythm.
The audience has been evolving for some time now.
I didn't even really consider 3 acts while writing my SP, i wrote it scene by scene. For me, it's about keeping people interested, not following some model.

Good luck with that...

The screenplay model is not outdated, rather it is a relatively new construct that has evolved from analyzing the success of various movies for the past 100 years. This is based in human psychology, and people evolve very slowly.

What we want to see it a person overcome an obstacle in a story that is long enough to fill a 90 minute plus framework. Act one: Introduce protagonist. PP1: derail something precious in their life. Act 2 try to correct the problem. Act 2 midpoint: spin it in a new direction so you can hit the 90 minute make without losing the audience's interest. End of act 2, protagonist resolves the problem. Act 3: wrap up the loose ends.

Watching older films that do not follow this framework will show you the reasons it evolved to be what it has become. In "No Highway in the Sky" the Jimmy Stewart character is proved right, but there is no resolving incident that his character is directly involved with rather the resolution just unfolds in time. Contrast that with "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" which is the same kind of underdog-themed movie where the protagonist is active in the resolution and you have one of the best movies of all time.

Are there exceptions that have worked well? Of course, but they are hugely risky and because of which are rarely funded.

Bob

 

[siraj]

When Bruce Willis's character is sitting with the mother, Toni Colette, why didn't he realise then that he was a ghost? She wouldn't have spoken to him all that time? How did he enter the house? haha. dirty tricks Mr. Shyamalan!

 

[CallaghanFilms]

When Bruce Willis's character is sitting with the mother, Toni Colette, why didn't he realise then that he was a ghost? She wouldn't have spoken to him all that time? How did he enter the house...

Because the bit of dialogue from Cole covers that, "...They only see what they want to see..."

Regardless of the last three turds Shamalamadingdong has projective shat onto screens, you can't really say anything to take The Sixth Sense away from him. Flawless storytelling.

 

[Kholi]

You are 100% correct. Blew my mind when I timed it out years and years ago, because if you ask anyone, they'd say that the stalking of the alien is what act II is all about. But the first appearance of the alien (and the first hint of any real danger) doesn't even happen until act II is halfway over!

Same thing with Home Alone. People think that the battle against the burglars takes up half the film. In reality, it's 10 minutes. Out of a 103-minute film, 10 minutes is spent on that battle, the other 93 minutes is on Kevin and his relationship with his family and such.

It's funny to me that the films (I can say Film, because they were all shot on film!YAY) being discussed here--with the exception of cellular--all are A-Grade titles that are mostly, if not entirely, character driven.

I agree with you on the Sixth Sense, although the lines can be a bit fuzzy on who the actual story is about: it's difficult to really tell who's POV it's being told from when you experience COLE in specific scenes. e.g. Cole and his Grandmother in the kitchen, Cole and The Braindead Kid and, which occurs earlier than either instance, Cole in the Dumb Waiter Shaft.

While the movie begins with MALCOM and rather effectively illustrates several underlying problems with the character and its/his relationship not only with his wife, but, his environment... I would say there is a fair amount of time spent just exploring COLE and his Mother's relationship, and COLE and his relationship with his environment; I can see why it's confusing.

However, I do agree that ACT II begins the moment you find MALCOM on the bench.

I've seen this movie near to twenty times, I'm sure, and I still am undecided on who it is about. Yet, by the end of each watch, it's safe to say that every key character's emotional stake makes the entire film excellent.

Someone said, earlier in this thread, that structure is not the same for every story. I may be wrong/under-learned, it seems to me that the "structure" immediately begins to dissolve when you cross the line from a Plot Driven Narrative into the realm of Character Driven Narrative.

I'd like to think that Christopher Nolan's THE PRESTIGE falls into this category, but I would love to hear other's thoughts on it.

 

[Kholi]

Because the bit of dialogue from Cole covers that, "...They only see what they want to see..."

Regardless of the last three turds Shamalamadingdong has projective shat onto screens, you can't really say anything to take The Sixth Sense away from him. Flawless storytelling.

I stand behind this statement.

Although, as I posted above, it's very VERY obvious that our all-seeing-eye is MALCOM'S in THE SIXTH SENSE, it can get a bit fuzzy, simply because the character is not with COLE the entire time. It often breaks away to find COLE's day-to-day.

Still, even these moments in the film are photographed from a voyeur's perspective. A prime example is the sudden transition from very smooth and static scripted camera operation in prior scenes to COLE and his Mother in the Kitchen, during the Breakfast scene which is shot Handheld, Wide and with very minimal cutting.