Acoustic Guitar + Singing --- Mic setup advice needed

M

Mike Caren

New member
I'm recording a guitarist playing an acoustic guitar and singing. The shot will take place in a converted garage with OK acoustics (carpeting, curtain and a bit of sound foam). Ideally, I would like to take the shot without a microphone in view. To date, I've got the best sounding results using an Oktava MK-12 placed about 6 " above and 12" in front of the subject --- routing the signal through a mixing board and recording onto my computer. This sound works very well for talking, but I find it a bit "hollow" (a lack of "warmth" if you will) compared to my omni vocal mic (Audio Technica AT 2020) set about 6" directly in front of the guitarist (a more pure audio recording setup). I've also tried a Countryman B-3 (a lot of background noise), the Audio Technica AT 2020 6" above and 12" in front (similar "hollow" sound to the Oktava --- but with more background noise) and a Rode NTG-2 (very "hollow" --- much worse than the Oktava).

Any advice on either setups, mod's to room acoustics or microphones would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for the help!

Mike
 
Doesn't sound like you have the mics, but the obvious thing to try is a stereo pair of cardioid mics in an XY, DIN, NOS, or ORTF arrangement (try XY first). That won't sound "hollow" at all I bet, I do it all of the time. Or if you have two omnis, try a split AB omni stereo pair instead.
 
OK --- thanks for the advice. I'm OK with buying more mics as long as I'm confident I will be successful. Trouble is, I'm new to this and am woefully ignorant.

In terms of cardoid mic's, what would you suggest? (I forgot to mention the Octava I have has a hyper-cardoid cap)

Also, do you have any suggestions for XY holders? (right now I'm using boom mic stands --- the guitarist is sitting)

What kind of setup (mics, holders etc.) have you used for this?

Any good books you would recommend? (some of the terms you used were new to me)

In terms of past recordings, I noticed that when I mic'd farther away, the guitar was too loud in comparison to the voice --- until I went to the Octava Mk-12 with the hyper cardoid cap --- and pointed the mic right at the guitartis mouth from 6" above and 12" in front of him.

Have you experienced similar issues, and if so, how did you go about solving it?

Thanks again for the help!

Mike
 
You're talking about recording live music, of which there is an ENTIRE INDUSTRY, including books, etc. You're best bet is to just start educating yourself the best you can, and be warned, it can get mighty expensive mighty fast if you really get into it. I will also recommend a forum like DVX User (there are MANY others like this one, but this is a good one) that is dedicated to "audience taping" where there is just a ridiculous amount of information, but don't just post a question there without searching first because chances are it's been asked a million times before. The website is called TapersSection.com, and it requires free registration.

Also, there is a section called "Microphone University" on the DPA Microphones website that goes through all the standard stereo pair configs with pictures and short explanations. That is a very worthwhile place to start in terms of stereo-micing techniques, but like I said before, I'd start with XY cards or split AB omnis given your description of the need. Also, there are several stereo bars available on the market, some much more expensive than others, but two that are used a lot are the AKG Stereo Bar ($25 or so) and the Shure Vert Bar (About $65 or so).

Good luck...
 
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I'm not really exactly sure what you are going for, but generally you would not use a hyper for this type of recording. I think the cartoid cap for your Octava would be fine. Also, avoid pointing the mic directly into the sound hole (sounds like you might have been doing this based on the second post). A pretty common arrangement is a spaced stereo pair. Typically you might point one somewhere around the 12th fret and then another near the tail. A mic pointed at the hole will sound boomy and pretty bad. Aiming at the fretboard seems rather unintuitive but it can provide a pretty good balance of the various sources that make up an acoustic guitar sound.

I think getting a good sound with overhead mics will be difficult if not impossible unless you have a room with fantastic acoustics which it sounds like is not the case.

A lot of acoustic guitars need some low cut to not seem boomy, and it is very common to add 10:1 compression with a fast attack to get a glassy "zing".

Hope that helps a bit.


You might want to do some searching on the Digidesign User Conference or on other pro audio forums dedicated to recording music for some more info.
 
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thanks --- things sound much better

thanks --- things sound much better

Thanks for the advice. I will take a look at the sites you all suggested and also invest in a stereo pair of cardoids. For grins, I kind of 'hacked' what you all were suggesting and setup my Oktava Hypercardoid mk-012 next to my Audio Technica Cardoid at-2020 as a 'franken studio pair' about 6" above and 12" in front of the guitarist. The vocal sound was greatly improved compared to either mic alone. I think the Oktava gave the vocal clarity while the Audio Technica Cardoid filled in to give the sound some warmth. The sound I now have is definitely usable.

I will also try adding a third mic on the 12th fret of the guitar to improve the acoustic tone.

Again, I really appreciate your advice and help on this one. Also, if you ever want a free on-line guitar lesson, let me know and you can enjoy the product of your advice.

Mike
 
If you are going to use a stereo pair to record, but want to keep them at a distance to avoid having them in the camera shot - have you thought about using M/S technique ?

It might be a good idea because unlike most other stereo techniques you have one microphone aimed directly at the sound source.
 
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