abnormal ticking... help in post removal PLEASE!

J

Jonathan12uiz

Well-known member
Hey guys I've been running into an issue with my Gaming commentary channel recently with a new audio setup.

I have setup the system where my mic output goes to the PS3 then outputs input of the mac... This way I can in game chat with players while recording at the same time without having to sync.

It saves massive amounts of time, but I've got a weird ticking/distortion noise in the background. There is no gain, no attenuation, etc.

For the purpose of this post, I boosted the audio signal from the input so that you can clearly hear the noise.

I'm no audio expert but would love if someone showed me how to cut this sound out using filters so that all that passes through is my voice.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The setup is as follows:

Tritton AX180 headset > PS3 via Turtle Beach USB in/out card (input) > Turtle Beach USB (output) > MacBook Pro Input

I use FCPX...

Please help... I would gladly give credit in our videos and credits.

Youtube LINK: http://youtu.be/AS77VYxC81c
 
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Ouch. That's a tough one. The problem is the noise is all over the spectrum. You have low end rumble, mid range oscillation, and high end whine. Removing all that will not leave you with any real usable audio. It sounds like there is a ground loop/poor connection/bad converters/unhappy gear thing going on all at the same time. I haven't done this with FCPX, but I have done this with an AVID Mojo and an XBox360. You really need to use a proper interface with a good mic. To me, it sounds like there is a piece of problem gear somewhere in there and you need to figure out which piece is causing you the problem. I'd start with the interface between your PS3 and your Macbook Pro. Get a good interface that goes from HDMI to whatever input you have on your macbook (thunderbolt or usb or firewire depending on how old your macbook is). See if that helps. Maybe the Turtle Beach card on your PS3 went bad? Is there something else you can use for that? Start from the interface and work your way back to your headset until you solve it.
 
That's definitely a generated noise. Could be the interface as Dave mentioned either from the output of the PS3, or on your input side. Going after a hardware fix would be first priority......but failing that........

Do you have a decent audio workstation (DAW) program like PT or DP? Here's a trick.....create a filter from the sound. Because it is a regular interval sound you are in a better position. If it was random.....you would be SOL. Record 2 minutes of it, flip the phase, lay it in as a secondary audio track in your NDE and match up (exactly) the waveforms and volume level of the sound you are trying to eliminate. Since it is low level as you said, it should not have too much effect on the recorded signal you want to keep.

I have used this trick for many an unwanted sound that I couldn't just cut out in my material.
 
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Doc Bernard said:
That's definitely a generated noise. Could be the interface as Dave mentioned either from the output of the PS3, or on your input side. Going after a hardware fix would be first priority......but failing that........

Do you have a decent audio workstation (DAW) program like PT or DP? Here's a trick.....create a filter from the sound. Because it is a regular interval sound you are in a better position. If it was random.....you would be SOL. Record 2 minutes of it, flip the phase, lay it in as a secondary audio track in your NDE and match up (exactly) the waveforms and volume level of the sound you are trying to eliminate. Since it is low level as you said, it should not have too much effect on the recorded signal you want to keep.

I have used this trick for many an unwanted sound that I couldn't just cut out in my material.
Click to expand...


I definitely found the source of the noise to be coming from the usb sound card out of the ps3, but even a new unit has the same results. I'm not familiar with PT or DP.. what is that?

I'm getting what you are saying about canceling it out, I'm just wondering if ther is a way to flip the phase in FCPX... plugin maybe?
 
Jonathan12uiz said:
I definitely found the source of the noise to be coming from the usb sound card out of the ps3, but even a new unit has the same results. I'm not familiar with PT or DP.. what is that?

I'm getting what you are saying about canceling it out, I'm just wondering if ther is a way to flip the phase in FCPX... plugin maybe?
Click to expand...

Actually I found that that "Gain" audio effect in FCPX has a phase L & phase R option, applying both and stacking audio cuts the noise completely, Now I just have to make a master track that I can copy and paste that has the exact wave form pattern.
 
Doc Bernard said:
That's definitely a generated noise. Could be the interface as Dave mentioned either from the output of the PS3, or on your input side. Going after a hardware fix would be first priority......but failing that........

Do you have a decent audio workstation (DAW) program like PT or DP? Here's a trick.....create a filter from the sound. Because it is a regular interval sound you are in a better position. If it was random.....you would be SOL. Record 2 minutes of it, flip the phase, lay it in as a secondary audio track in your NDE and match up (exactly) the waveforms and volume level of the sound you are trying to eliminate. Since it is low level as you said, it should not have too much effect on the recorded signal you want to keep.

I have used this trick for many an unwanted sound that I couldn't just cut out in my material.
Click to expand...


So thanks soo much for your idea! I greatly appreciate it. I will definitiely be testing the new setup using this phase out method!
 
That's actually a very common noise from audio cards that live inside the computer - processor noise and leakage from the data cables, internal busses. I suspect that the trouble is from the gain stages, as you go in and out of the various kit. One probably has too little output, so the next device has to ramp up the gain, and up with it comes the noise. Always tricky with computer inputs. I have one computer here that has this noise on the output all the time, but the soundcard has a digital output, and using this into another device with a digital in is noise free. Many motherboards have their audio processors on the main board and that's a pretty noise contaminated place. In the past, using a DI box to provide some isolation improved things - but it's trial and error.
 
It appears to be a fundamental problem with the way the analog audio circuits are designed in the PS3 (and many/most modern computers or computer-like-objects). As I see it, you have three options:
1) Don't route your audio through noise-generating device like PS3. But, as you say, that makes it much more time-consuming to re-sync everything in post-production editing.
2) Keep your sample of the noise and try using it to cancel the noise in the PS3 audio. While an interesting lab experiment, I would find it almost MORE fiddly than #1 above, and far less reliable.
3) Attempt to quiet down your PS3 audio system by additional shielding and bypassing/filtering. I don't know what kind of internals documentation (official or unofficial) there is, but it is not a trivial exercise.
 
That actually sounds a lot like the old Turtle Beach sound card I had in a PC many years ago. You are hearing Radio frequency noise generated by parts of the computer, usually the power supply but in the old days (way back when... ;~) ) with tube monitors you could get it off the fly back transformer in the monitor.

Better shielding might help, an isolation transformer might help, routing cables differently might help. Making sure all the audio cables and boxes are as far away from power lines and especially power supplies might help.

PT = Pro Tools, DP = Digital Performer both are DAW's = Digital Audio Workstations (sound editing software) Sound Track Pro is also a DAW.
 
Doc Bernard said:
No problem! Glad to see my AAS degree has helped someone..........LOL.
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actually after several attempts at using a 15min sample to cancel out the noise by inverting the phase, I found that it is near impossible to cancel the noise out.

Apparently the mic and audio data change the noise's wave pattern. Hence rendering the sample sound ineffective. Back to square one.

Nice to know though, that using an inverted phase audio file over another basically mutes it.
 
Noiz2 said:
That actually sounds a lot like the old Turtle Beach sound card I had in a PC many years ago. You are hearing Radio frequency noise generated by parts of the computer, usually the power supply but in the old days (way back when... ;~) ) with tube monitors you could get it off the fly back transformer in the monitor.

Better shielding might help, an isolation transformer might help, routing cables differently might help. Making sure all the audio cables and boxes are as far away from power lines and especially power supplies might help.

PT = Pro Tools, DP = Digital Performer both are DAW's = Digital Audio Workstations (sound editing software) Sound Track Pro is also a DAW.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation of PT and DP. This usb card is actually plugged into the ps3 not computer, but I've tried all the methods you explained so far... sadly nothing really helps.
 
One thing that can probably help, is Rx by iZotope or some other noise sampling noise reduction plugin. Rx is better than most and you can go into the advanced mode and isolate where it does the noise reduction. In your case the noise is all over the spectrum and has a periodic-ness to it that could really screw up NR apps. But you could try to do it in several passes and used the threshold curve to try and not have the NR trash what you want to keep.

It's not a great solution.

Would it not be easier to use a mixer to take the game sound and you mic and mix them going into the computer? Then you could eliminate sending your voice through the game box which seems to be the problem.
 
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