I currently own the ME66 and it is really not a bad mic for the price. Although, I was at B&H the other day listening to the differences between the ME66, CS-1, and the 416 and have to say the I was surprisingly impressed by the overall quality of the CS-1. Nice mic ...
A shotgun Mic for DVX
- Thread starter malmsteen
- Start date
Rush
DVXuser Sponsor
Hi malmsteen, if there is any way for you to listen to the difference between the 897 and the ME66, you will probably end up making the best decision. It is really a matter of taste too. We sell 50-50, 1 for 1 of those mics, and they together make up 80% of our shotgun mic sales. Sure the MKH416 and the AT4073 sound better, but we sell the 897 and 66 by the hundreds. Half our customers ask our opinion or ask for a test in the lobby, the other half go by the price or name brand.
The 897 is definitely the price winner, especially since we give away an MZSCAM shock mount and 18" XLR cable with it for DVXusers at $277.95. Sennheiser is the pickup champ, it is super sensitive, and we are currently in negotiations with Sennheiser to try and come up with a similar freebie package, so that for $425 you can also get that mic with the freebies.:laugh:
897 sounds muddy to some, true-flat to others. ME66 sounds sharp to some, tinny to others. 897 is very low-gain, so you have to gain up the camera, ME66 is very high gain, so a quarter turn on the camera dial is enough. 897 has better rear-rejection than the 66, but is not modular. ME66 can be removed and replaced with a shorter ME64 with excellent rear rejection, longer ME67, or even a Lavolier capsule for only $200 each (half the price of a new shotgun)
I've heard the gamut of customer responses in our front lobby. Sure, we bring in the MKH-416, and it blows everyone away, but for most budgets one of the two former mics are the only ones attainable. Like I said, if there is any way you can hear for yourself, that is best. Good luck.:thumbsup:
The 897 is definitely the price winner, especially since we give away an MZSCAM shock mount and 18" XLR cable with it for DVXusers at $277.95. Sennheiser is the pickup champ, it is super sensitive, and we are currently in negotiations with Sennheiser to try and come up with a similar freebie package, so that for $425 you can also get that mic with the freebies.:laugh:
897 sounds muddy to some, true-flat to others. ME66 sounds sharp to some, tinny to others. 897 is very low-gain, so you have to gain up the camera, ME66 is very high gain, so a quarter turn on the camera dial is enough. 897 has better rear-rejection than the 66, but is not modular. ME66 can be removed and replaced with a shorter ME64 with excellent rear rejection, longer ME67, or even a Lavolier capsule for only $200 each (half the price of a new shotgun)
I've heard the gamut of customer responses in our front lobby. Sure, we bring in the MKH-416, and it blows everyone away, but for most budgets one of the two former mics are the only ones attainable. Like I said, if there is any way you can hear for yourself, that is best. Good luck.:thumbsup:
MattC
Veteran
Rush gives a very good and balanced view. I still like the 897, as I'm one of the folks who thinks it sounds flat.
Really, these things are going to come down to the skill of the operator as the negatives of both mics can largely be overcome by proper mic placement. If the 897 is placed properly it will not sound muddy, it will sound flat. If the 66 is placed properly it still wont be as flat but it won't be "tinny" either. One of the reasons I like the 897 for folks new to audio is because it does have better rear rejection and because it IS less sensitive. For some reason people think that if a mic has "reach" it should be used. This is wrong. Yes, it's nice to have reach if you absolutely need it, but, just like with a high powered zoom lens, you are much better off moving the mic in closer than relying on a mics sensitivity. I just think it is much easier to get consistently good sound out of the 897, in part because the mic forces you to use it (place it) properly.
I would never consider the modular factor of the 66 because it is not a good enough mic to build a system around (and neither is the 897 if such an option was available, which it isn't)
If you can afford it, the 4073 is a TREMENDOUS value.... If you are buying an 897 or a 66 realize that you are buying a mic that you will more than likely replace in the future and be happy for what it is.
Matt
Really, these things are going to come down to the skill of the operator as the negatives of both mics can largely be overcome by proper mic placement. If the 897 is placed properly it will not sound muddy, it will sound flat. If the 66 is placed properly it still wont be as flat but it won't be "tinny" either. One of the reasons I like the 897 for folks new to audio is because it does have better rear rejection and because it IS less sensitive. For some reason people think that if a mic has "reach" it should be used. This is wrong. Yes, it's nice to have reach if you absolutely need it, but, just like with a high powered zoom lens, you are much better off moving the mic in closer than relying on a mics sensitivity. I just think it is much easier to get consistently good sound out of the 897, in part because the mic forces you to use it (place it) properly.
I would never consider the modular factor of the 66 because it is not a good enough mic to build a system around (and neither is the 897 if such an option was available, which it isn't)
If you can afford it, the 4073 is a TREMENDOUS value.... If you are buying an 897 or a 66 realize that you are buying a mic that you will more than likely replace in the future and be happy for what it is.
Matt
thisiswells
Retired
Which AT mic sounds like the KMR-81i? Or, was I in la-la land when I thought someone said that?
I use a CS-1 and love it. I find that it sounds more natural and warm than the ME66. I've always thought the ME66 sounded tinny, but those are just my ears.
Rush
DVXuser Sponsor
I actually talked to Sennheiser today and asked them all kinds of questions about their mics, and literally just pushed the whole point of "why does this mic sound tinny?" etc...
This is from memory, so let me gather my thoughts here:
They said it was primarily a question of distance. The ME66 capsule is designed just like an AT897, it is a, interference tube charged electret membrane :huh: . It has a 1.5v charge across it from the factory, and changes in SPL (Sound pressure level) change the amount of voltage conducted by the membrane, like a super small battery. It goes from ~1.2v to 1.9v. The K6 power module is simply a pre-amp, but does not power the membrane at all. It generates 5x the power output of a dynamic mic, or the AT897, hence the "high sensistivity" aspect.
Now, in order to get better "reach" they said they had to make the interference tube longer. This allows only certain higher waves to pass through, but not the bassy low-waves, thus creating a more compressed response to higher frequency, narrower bandwidth, and the sometimes "tinny" aspect. They also said that the ME66 is designed with that in mind, as all Sennheiser electret mics have been for 50 years. However, the ME64, being a shorter interference tube not focused on gathering distant sounds, allows the lower waves to enter, thereby creating a wider dynamic range, and hence "no tinniness, more warmth, less sensitivity."
I had to ask them these questions, because I had to get to the bottom of why so many people buy and love both the ME66 and the AT897, after they do all their own tests in the lobby, not based on our recommendations... Audio Technica is next on my call list! :thumbsup: I wanna know what the difference between the AT897 and AT4073 are, considering they are both electrets.
Also, on a side note, I asked Sennheiser, and they answered, "why the MKH-416 and higher mics sound so damn good?" They are RF (Radio Frequency) condenser mics. They are not polarized like the electret ME66, they derive their charge from the +48v phantom power. This makes the membranes thinner and more sensitive, so voices sound more true-to-life. They have two membranes, with a vaccum between, and the actual voice coil is in the back, protected from all the elements. No moisture or heat can affect their performance, even up to 100% humidity and 140deg heat. Sennheiser said that the gain on these mics is so high, they actually have an RF transmitter circuit inside to bring it down before it comes out to the recorder. The technology was first invented for the U.S. military in the 60's, because the mics could survive under any conditions:shocked:. I will post the Audio technica info when I call them next week.
If anyone has specific questions, i finally found a very techy person at Sennheiser to answer them. Email me and I will relay the question. I have also encouraged him to start posting here, like Century does and many others.
This is from memory, so let me gather my thoughts here:
They said it was primarily a question of distance. The ME66 capsule is designed just like an AT897, it is a, interference tube charged electret membrane :huh: . It has a 1.5v charge across it from the factory, and changes in SPL (Sound pressure level) change the amount of voltage conducted by the membrane, like a super small battery. It goes from ~1.2v to 1.9v. The K6 power module is simply a pre-amp, but does not power the membrane at all. It generates 5x the power output of a dynamic mic, or the AT897, hence the "high sensistivity" aspect.
Now, in order to get better "reach" they said they had to make the interference tube longer. This allows only certain higher waves to pass through, but not the bassy low-waves, thus creating a more compressed response to higher frequency, narrower bandwidth, and the sometimes "tinny" aspect. They also said that the ME66 is designed with that in mind, as all Sennheiser electret mics have been for 50 years. However, the ME64, being a shorter interference tube not focused on gathering distant sounds, allows the lower waves to enter, thereby creating a wider dynamic range, and hence "no tinniness, more warmth, less sensitivity."
I had to ask them these questions, because I had to get to the bottom of why so many people buy and love both the ME66 and the AT897, after they do all their own tests in the lobby, not based on our recommendations... Audio Technica is next on my call list! :thumbsup: I wanna know what the difference between the AT897 and AT4073 are, considering they are both electrets.
Also, on a side note, I asked Sennheiser, and they answered, "why the MKH-416 and higher mics sound so damn good?" They are RF (Radio Frequency) condenser mics. They are not polarized like the electret ME66, they derive their charge from the +48v phantom power. This makes the membranes thinner and more sensitive, so voices sound more true-to-life. They have two membranes, with a vaccum between, and the actual voice coil is in the back, protected from all the elements. No moisture or heat can affect their performance, even up to 100% humidity and 140deg heat. Sennheiser said that the gain on these mics is so high, they actually have an RF transmitter circuit inside to bring it down before it comes out to the recorder. The technology was first invented for the U.S. military in the 60's, because the mics could survive under any conditions:shocked:. I will post the Audio technica info when I call them next week.
If anyone has specific questions, i finally found a very techy person at Sennheiser to answer them. Email me and I will relay the question. I have also encouraged him to start posting here, like Century does and many others.
indianfilmmaker
Member
Have you ever considered renting? For around $200, I think you might be able to rent a Senn 416 for a couple of weeks. You may or may not need insurance for it though.