A few DR-100 Questions

J

jacob12_1993

Active member
Hey Guys just wondering if you could help me here

1) Will a -25db attentuation cable work with the DR-100 and D7000 for use as a guide track? I have read that it needs to be a -35db but I can't find a -35db cable for sale in the UK at all and pink noise systems have their -25db cables reduced.

2) This may be a silly question but can I just extend the attentuation cable if needed by using a 1/8" extension cable? I'm unsure on what size to buy, 25cm, 60cm?

3) What is the best quality setting for me to record in on my DR-100? The doc work will be used for the web mainly and maybe a few small festivals. I need to keep filesizes down as I will only have 1tb worth of storage (2 x 1tb back up) and at the highest quality 24bit 96khz the files are pretty huge. Would 16bit 48khz be okay or do I need 24bit 48khz minimum? I will be recording some sound to my D7000 and also iPhone too if this makes any difference

Regards

Jake
 
3) For practically best quality, 24/48K. I don't understand why your storage is limited to 1TB, and how it can dramatically affect your audio file sizes (1TB is big enough to store about 1,500 audio CDs - not enough for you?? Given the same recording time, your video footage will always be many times bigger than audio files, even if you record sound at 24/96K). Anyway, if storage is a big concern to you, you can always downsize your final output files, and let your client(s) be responsible for archiving raw files.
 
1) I wouldn't worry about 25dB vs 35dB IF you are only talking about a guide track.

2) Sure you can extend that cable, but beware that many (most?) 3.5mm extention cables are UNSHIELDED because they are designed for use with headphones. Be sure to get one that is shielded. Use whatever length is convenient for your operation.

3) 48K is the video standard sample rate. You could use 44K rate, but IMHO the hassle of up-conversion to 48K (for editing) and the possiblity of conversion artifacts would not be enough to make this questionable compromise. And you could use 16-bit sampling if you really want to save storage space, but IMHO the tradeoff is strongly in favor of 24 bit for the ability to handle unexpected wide dynamics.

Not clear why your storage space is limited to 1TB? That much space on SDHC flash cards is smaller than your driver's license and is quite inexpensive these days. And audio files are hardly "pretty huge" compared to video files. You may have your numbers confused here. Suggest reviewing your calculations.
 
Richard Crowley said:
1) I wouldn't worry about 25dB vs 35dB IF you are only talking about a guide track.

2) Sure you can extend that cable, but beware that many (most?) 3.5mm extention cables are UNSHIELDED because they are designed for use with headphones. Be sure to get one that is shielded. Use whatever length is convenient for your operation.

3) 48K is the video standard sample rate. You could use 44K rate, but IMHO the hassle of up-conversion to 48K (for editing) and the possiblity of conversion artifacts would not be enough to make this questionable compromise. And you could use 16-bit sampling if you really want to save storage space, but IMHO the tradeoff is strongly in favor of 24 bit for the ability to handle unexpected wide dynamics.

Not clear why your storage space is limited to 1TB? That much space on SDHC flash cards is smaller than your driver's license and is quite inexpensive these days. And audio files are hardly "pretty huge" compared to video files. You may have your numbers confused here. Suggest reviewing your calculations.
Click to expand...

1tb on SDHC would be FAR too expensive. I will be dumping the video AND audio files onto 1tb hard drives which will be in my rucksack. The doc will be filmed in Thailand and Burma and I will be carrying my gear in a rucksack. I can't physically afford/carry anything larger than 2 1tb 2.5" drives. I suppose I exaggerated a little with 'pretty huge' but 96khz 24bit is just over 2 gb/hr whereas 48khz 16bit would be around 675mb/hr thats nearly 4 times the amount of space. What I am asking is, will there be much difference for web use between 48khz 24bit and 48khz 16bit that warrants nearly double the storage size? Also because the D7000 only records in 48khz 16bit, is there any point in me recording some audio in 24bit when I will have to cut it with 16bit from my D7000 and iPhone anyway?
 
There is simply no point in recording doco sound in the field at 96K, so you can cross that off your list of options.
So the difference comes down to 48K @ 16 bit vs 48K @ 24 bit.
If I had the attention to ride levels on the audio recording, 16 bit would probably be OK.
But if I were shooting and just letting the audio run, I would REALLY want the extra headroom of 24 bit to keep safe levels.
Remember that if you guess wrong and clip the record levels, the sound will have moderate to severe damage, and likely be un-repairable.

The whole point of 24bit recording is to have that safety margin of headroom.
Yes, you will knock it down to 16-bit when mixing down and editing, but that is in the comfort of your editing session with 100% hindsight of what the levels of each clip were. If you knew what the levels would be before hitting the record button, you would make better money as a psychic for the tabloids.

Alternatively, how good is the limiter on the DR-100? Is it good enough for what you are shooting? If it is good enough, then go for the 16 bits to save space. Much of what you are asking is subjective production trade-off decisions that only you can make based on your expectations of quality vs. storage space available, and what you are shooting/recording (not revealed here). If I were doing a doco on wetlands snakes or crickets or tree-frogs, I wouldn't be as worried as if I were doing a doco about tribal war chants or logging or artillery.

And 2.5 inch hard drives are hardly bulky. Carrying four rather than two isn't a difference of even 3 cubic inches and 8 ounces.
 
Richard Crowley said:
There is simply no point in recording doco sound in the field at 96K, so you can cross that off your list of options.
So the difference comes down to 48K @ 16 bit vs 48K @ 24 bit.
If I had the attention to ride levels on the audio recording, 16 bit would probably be OK.
But if I were shooting and just letting the audio run, I would REALLY want the extra headroom of 24 bit to keep safe levels.
Remember that if you guess wrong and clip the record levels, the sound will have moderate to severe damage, and likely be un-repairable.

The whole point of 24bit recording is to have that safety margin of headroom.
Yes, you will knock it down to 16-bit when mixing down and editing, but that is in the comfort of your editing session with 100% hindsight of what the levels of each clip were. If you knew what the levels would be before hitting the record button, you would make better money as a psychic for the tabloids.

Alternatively, how good is the limiter on the DR-100? Is it good enough for what you are shooting? If it is good enough, then go for the 16 bits to save space. Much of what you are asking is subjective production trade-off decisions that only you can make based on your expectations of quality vs. storage space available, and what you are shooting/recording (not revealed here). If I were doing a doco on wetlands snakes or crickets or tree-frogs, I wouldn't be as worried as if I were doing a doco about tribal war chants or logging or artillery.

And 2.5 inch hard drives are hardly bulky. Carrying four rather than two isn't a difference of even 3 cubic inches and 8 ounces.
Click to expand...

The limiter is pretty pants from what I can tell so that isn't much of an option unfortunately. I will probably shoot in 24bit for the majority of it and then drop down to 16 bit once I know I have got it bob on in capture. As I am working solo the extra headroom is probably more important and I can always get a couple of small cheap drives to store anything extra on. Thank you for your help Richard it has been priceless

P.s I'm shooting NGOs, hospitals, clinics, refugee camps and hill tribe villages if that helps :-)
 
Research on the interweb led me to the definition of "pants": "(UK, slang) of inferior quality, rubbish."
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pants#Adjective

Funny how we ostensibly use the same language, but there are some BrEnglish words are are more foreign in AmEnglish than many words from French, German, Italian or Spanish. Bonne chance wth your production (as they say in France) :-
 
jacob12_1993 said:
The limiter is pretty pants from what I can tell so that isn't much of an option unfortunately.
Click to expand...
For normal audio acquisition, the limiter on the DR-100 should be fine.. if used to catch occasional peaks. The limiter would have no effect at all on the signal passing below the threshold, unless you're thinking of it (or using it) as a 'leveling' device. That's not advisable even on an high-end mixer or recorder.
 
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