Assuming that digital projection is increasingly becoming the norm and celluloid film projection, while still common, will gradually be replaced, I take it that in time 'film outs' will no longer become necessary as the appropriate digital files for digital projection will be all that is required. Up until now at least, I automatically assumed it was necessary to deliver 25p/24p to ensure compatibility with film projection requirements, but I would have thought this restriction is becoming obsolete. Are digital projectors currently in use at those cinemas that have them OK with 720/50p (or 60p)? If so, it liberates us from the necessity to shoot 25p/24p and we can choose 720/50p (I’m in PAL land) which admittedly doesn't quite have the film look but makes things easier for a cameraman in a run & gun situation where 25p/24p presents challenges, particularly panning. Maybe I should be asking a digital projectionist about this but thought someone here might have considered using the higher frame rate themselves.
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720/50p or 60p digital cinema
- Thread starter lowlight
- Start date
Barry_Green
Moderator
This has been discussed infinitely. There is no arguing that faster frame rates provide more accurate motion rendition and more accurate motion sampling. Simultaneously, there is no arguing that there is a massive base (pretty much the entire membership of DVXUser) who prefers the aesthetic look of 24fps progressive footage, over faster frame rates. After all, we all had 60i before, and we didn't like that look; when 24p came around, it just exploded for indie filmmakers.
That said, there are definitely scenarios where 60p is vastly preferable. Live events and sports and news, to name three. I don't know if or when 60p would become preferable for drama, and I kind of suspect that it just won't -- but really at the end of the day it's an aesthetic choice. If you like the look of 60p, go ahead and shoot it that way. Whether your audiences like watching it, well, that may be another question entirely.
As for digital projectors -- the Digital Cinema Initiative specification is available for download here. From the brief overview in the Wikipedia article, it does not appear to support 50p or 60p. It supports 24p at 2K and 4K, and 48p at 2K. Other articles say that a revision in 2009 allows for 2K at 50P and 60P.
The future is the future. With digital projectors you wouldn't need to be locked to the 24fps rate. If someone wants to shoot a different frame rate, well, go right ahead. It is an aesthetic choice, at that point. Of course, if you want to distribute to the large swaths of the world that don't have digital projectors installed yet, you may have to conform down to 24fps to make a film print for them, I guess.
That said, there are definitely scenarios where 60p is vastly preferable. Live events and sports and news, to name three. I don't know if or when 60p would become preferable for drama, and I kind of suspect that it just won't -- but really at the end of the day it's an aesthetic choice. If you like the look of 60p, go ahead and shoot it that way. Whether your audiences like watching it, well, that may be another question entirely.
As for digital projectors -- the Digital Cinema Initiative specification is available for download here. From the brief overview in the Wikipedia article, it does not appear to support 50p or 60p. It supports 24p at 2K and 4K, and 48p at 2K. Other articles say that a revision in 2009 allows for 2K at 50P and 60P.
The future is the future. With digital projectors you wouldn't need to be locked to the 24fps rate. If someone wants to shoot a different frame rate, well, go right ahead. It is an aesthetic choice, at that point. Of course, if you want to distribute to the large swaths of the world that don't have digital projectors installed yet, you may have to conform down to 24fps to make a film print for them, I guess.
Barry, many thanks for that reply, and for the links. The IMAGO website is particularly useful about the latest situation regarding frame rates for digital cinema. Interesting that the writer of the IMAGO article believes 60fps is 'expected to be used eventually in most action movies' but that currently producing a movie at 60fps does limit distribution to updated digital theatres only.
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Thought I should revisit this thread as Peter Jackon is shooting The Hobbit using 48p. There is a consequent problem with distribution though as this article explains:
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118035338?refCatId=13
I like traditional film, but I wonder how long it will be before all cinema projection equipement will be digital right across the board. Technically, and as discussed above, there should be nothing to stop new digital films being projected in a range of frame rates such as 50p and 60p. 48p is not an option offered on mainstream consumer and prosumer cameras, but who knows? It could become the next thing. However, I'm not sure how TV broadcasters would adapt a 48p framerate to comply with broadcast specs. In NTSC countries dropping every other frame is the obvious route, but motion rendition will be affected, particularly if the director has shot the film specifically for viewing in 48p. I guess allowances must have been made for 24p viewing too as DVD sales are a massive commercial factor the producers of The Hobbit must have considered.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118035338?refCatId=13
I like traditional film, but I wonder how long it will be before all cinema projection equipement will be digital right across the board. Technically, and as discussed above, there should be nothing to stop new digital films being projected in a range of frame rates such as 50p and 60p. 48p is not an option offered on mainstream consumer and prosumer cameras, but who knows? It could become the next thing. However, I'm not sure how TV broadcasters would adapt a 48p framerate to comply with broadcast specs. In NTSC countries dropping every other frame is the obvious route, but motion rendition will be affected, particularly if the director has shot the film specifically for viewing in 48p. I guess allowances must have been made for 24p viewing too as DVD sales are a massive commercial factor the producers of The Hobbit must have considered.
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