I love cheesy 60's and 70's b-movie music. With the thousands of schlocky movies made in those eras I would expect some of that music to have fallen out of copywrite as some of those movies have been abandoned (even Night of the Living Dead went into public domain). I would love to use some of this existing music in my shorts but don't know how I would find it and am looking for any resources or direction on where to search. Thanks for any help.
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60's & 70's movie music
- Thread starter boulder
- Start date
unclebob6958
Well-known member
It's "Copyright", not copywrite.
You'll have to research on a per film basis.
You'll have to research on a per film basis.
Steve House
Veteran
I love cheesy 60's and 70's b-movie music. With the thousands of schlocky movies made in those eras I would expect some of that music to have fallen out of copywrite as some of those movies have been abandoned (even Night of the Living Dead went into public domain). I would love to use some of this existing music in my shorts but don't know how I would find it and am looking for any resources or direction on where to search. Thanks for any help.
There are some very rare exceptions but virtually everytthing written/recorded since 1922 is still in copyright. Under present copyright law, copyright exists for the life of the creator of the work plus 75 years. With regard to existing music recordings you also have to be careful to distinguish between the copyright on the music - the words and melody - and recordings of the music. They are completely separate copyrights, often under different ownership, and require separate licensing.
There are some very rare exceptions but virtually everytthing written/recorded since 1922 is still in copyright. Under present copyright law, copyright exists for the life of the creator of the work plus 75 years. With regard to existing music recordings you also have to be careful to distinguish between the copyright on the music - the words and melody - and recordings of the music. They are completely separate copyrights, often under different ownership, and require separate licensing.
Since there are movies that are totally in the public domain, meaning you can use them however you wish, wouldn't this include the sound half of the movie as well? In other words, if there were sequences without dialogue or sound effects but music was playing, wouldn't it be possible to lift this bit out of the movie and use it on your own?
Quality might be an issue, but other than that...
Steve House
Veteran
Since there are movies that are totally in the public domain, meaning you can use them however you wish, wouldn't this include the sound half of the movie as well? In other words, if there were sequences without dialogue or sound effects but music was playing, wouldn't it be possible to lift this bit out of the movie and use it on your own?
Quality might be an issue, but other than that...
I am not a lawyer but it is my understanding that the music in a movie is copyright separate from the movie itself. It certainly would if it was created separately and the movie producer licensed its use (such as Cameron's use of "My Heart Will Go On" in "Titanic") but also if it was created explicitly for the movie as a work-for-hire. So even if the movie itself enters the public domain, the music on the sound track would not automatically follow suit.
When you use an existing recording, as I mentioned, there are two copyrights involved, the copyright on the MUSIC itself and the copyright on the RECORDING of the music. When you use an existing recording of music in your film, you need to obtain a sync license from the holders of the copyright on the words and music, usually the publisher, and a master use license from the owners of the copyright on the recording, usually the record label that released it. I would suspect that in the case of a movie that has entered the public domain, it is the recording copyright that is affected so if you use a clip of original music from the movie you may not need to worry about the master use license but the words and melody would still be copyright and you would still have to obtain a license to use the the music from the publishers
Now in the case of relatively unknown B-movies though I would suspect there isn't a separate publisher is there? I would guess the composer was hired and created music for the film but since it usually isn't a theme that would be used beyond the actual movie why would they? I'm talking something like Atom Age Vampire not Love Story here.
Steve House
Veteran
Now in the case of relatively unknown B-movies though I would suspect there isn't a separate publisher is there? I would guess the composer was hired and created music for the film but since it usually isn't a theme that would be used beyond the actual movie why would they? I'm talking something like Atom Age Vampire not Love Story here.
Copoyright exists at the moment of creation. It is not an option. The music would still have separate copyright from the film. AFAIK it would not asutomatically follow the film into the public domain. For that matter, are you SURE such films really are public domain? Certainly most films from the 50's, 60's, and 70's are recent enough that they would still be under copyright. About the only exception would be when the producer has explcitily released it to the public domain or, in the case of, say, the footage of the first step on the moon, it was created with government money and so is public domain by virtue of that.
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No, the example I listed, Atomic Age Vampire (which I just grabbed from memory and which I have no idea of the music) I have no idea if it's in PD or not. I'm just saying by virtue of the amount of B-movies made in those eras I'm sure many are. Given that Night of the Living Dead is because they forgot to renew it, some of the almost unknown films must certainly be in PD.
Steve House
Veteran
No, the example I listed, Atomic Age Vampire (which I just grabbed from memory and which I have no idea of the music) I have no idea if it's in PD or not. I'm just saying by virtue of the amount of B-movies made in those eras I'm sure many are. Given that Night of the Living Dead is because they forgot to renew it, some of the almost unknown films must certainly be in PD.
A search via the copyright office would tell you for sure. According to the Wiki article on "Night of the Living Dead" specifically, none of the score was composed for the film and instead was licensed from several music libraries. For certain, then, the music would still be copyright even if the film is not.
And regarding that specific film, it's not that its copyright has expired due to age or failure to renew, it's in the public domain because the distributor released it without the then required copyright notice in the credits so its copyright was forfeited. I would be very surprised if more than a very few of the films from the era you reference are presently in the public domain.
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A search via the copyright office would tell you for sure. According to the Wiki article on "Night of the Living Dead" specifically, none of the score was composed for the film and instead was licensed from several music libraries. For certain, then, the music would still be copyright even if the film is not.
And regarding that specific film, it's not that its copyright has expired due to age or failure to renew, it's in the public domain because the distributor released it without the then required copyright notice in the credits so its copyright was forfeited. I would be very surprised if more than a very few of the films from the era you reference are presently in the public domain.
There are quite a few films that fell into the public domain because of failure to provide the copyright notice and other things. Virtually the entirety of the Mill Creek "50 Packs" of DVDs are made up of such films. Might be worth noting that at least one film (Deadtime Stories) was included because they THOUGHT it was in the public domain, but they were wrong. After notification, they pulled the editions of one of their 50 packs that had the film on it.
So even if the movie itself enters the public domain, the music on the sound track would not automatically follow suit.
Not saying you're wrong, but I find it pretty baffling that I can freely reproduce and sell a film, and even feature clips of it inside of another film, but I can't use the sound from it how I wish. Of course, copyright law is always pretty damn baffling in its complexity and, at times, idiocy.
Steve House
Veteran
...
Not saying you're wrong, but I find it pretty baffling that I can freely reproduce and sell a film, and even feature clips of it inside of another film, but I can't use the sound from it how I wish. Of course, copyright law is always pretty damn baffling in its complexity and, at times, idiocy.
The thing would hinge on "re-purposing" I would think. The music is licensed for use synced to images in the original film but such licenses are not transferable to a third party - ie, you licensing a song to use in YOUR film does not give you the authority to sub-license it or allow you to give me permission to use it in mine. You only have a non-transferrable license to use it for its original purpose, accompaning the images in your film. Someone uses a clip of yours in another film, the sound is still synced to the original images.
Actually you probably could use the sound, other than the music, any way you wish. But because music carrys its own separate copyright, the original owners would retain their copyright to the music even if the film licensing it is itself no longer copyright.
The thing would hinge on "re-purposing" I would think. The music is licensed for use synced to images in the original film but such licenses are not transferable to a third party - ie, you licensing a song to use in YOUR film does not give you the authority to sub-license it or allow you to give me permission to use it in mine. You only have a non-transferrable license to use it for its original purpose, accompaning the images in your film. Someone uses a clip of yours in another film, the sound is still synced to the original images.
Actually you probably could use the sound, other than the music, any way you wish. But because music carrys its own separate copyright, the original owners would retain their copyright to the music even if the film licensing it is itself no longer copyright.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking, in retrospect. It does make movies in the public domain only sort of in the public domain though, at least in my view of what "public domain" really means.