60 amp Bates plug?

Azmyth

Azmyth

Veteran
I'm looking into buying a 5K fresnel, and it says it has a 60 amp bates plug and will not work in standard outlets.. I'm not an expert on any of this stuff as far as the technical side of it goes. What does that mean for me? Will I not be able to use it or? does it need an adapter?
 
A standard house outlet is either 15amps or 20. A 5K draws 60amps. You'll need a generator to run a 5k. And yes, you'll need an adapter as well.
 
Actually, a 5K would draw about 42 amps at 120 volts.

You can use a 60 amp dryer outlet to power a 5K, so just buy a dryer outlet plug, use that instead of the Bates plug, and go to town.

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Chris is right (1,000w = @8.4 amps although rounding to 10amps is a good safety precaution)

The problem with the dryer outlets is that they are non-existent in some locations, too far away, and/or there are around a half dozen different 'styles' of the plugs. If you work alot in ONE location with such a plug, then you can go to town.

Otherwise, you'll probably be hard lucked to find dryer outlet plugs with the same plug design on two sets in a row. I've tried it many times, and it's always an issue. I'm not an electrician (non movie one, I mean) so I don't work with these alot, but I think it has to do with knowing the amperage of the 220v/240v (?) plug. Since you can have 60amp, 50amp, 30amp and etc

I think this is the chart I am looking for.
NEMA%20Non-Locking%20Plugs.gif


I love tungsten fresnels, but perhaps you should look into HMI if you need the 5k fresnel power but with a smaller light.

HMI's are about 4x (4x-5x) more power efficient (turning watts into light versus heat).... thus if you use a 1.2k or 1.8k(new arri lights) the 1.2k light actually puts out roughly the same intensity of a 5k tungsten. Should you need to add CTO, you're only loosing 2/3rds a stop with full O.

Do the math with the 1.8k HMI and WOW. That is roughly 5k WITH full CTO on the light! And this is all under the 20amp restriction of a household plug.
 
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thanks for that helpful info Chris! On that note, what would be a good way to diffuse that powerful of a light?

We need to spread the light over a large area, vs. it being a spot.
 
I don't even know that we'd need a 5k light for what I am trying to do, I just figured since the price was nearly the same for both, might as well get the one with the most light.
 
Well if it's a fresnel fixture, just flood out the focus. If you need more spread, you can put some diffusion material in front of it, preferably diffusion material on a frame and not too close to the front of the light.

As for the dryer outlet issues, yes there are many different types of plugs so when you do a tech scout of the location take a picture of the outlet (if one is there) and show up on the shoot day(s) with the right plug on the end of your cable.

It would also make a lot of sense to actually just make a short "dryer plug to 60 amp Bates" cable and use regular 60 amp extension cables to reach the head.

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Chris Santucci said:
As for the dryer outlet issues, yes there are many different types of plugs so when you do a tech scout of the location take a picture of the outlet (if one is there) and show up on the shoot day(s) with the right plug on the end of your cable.


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But besides just getting the plug, he's also got to identify the type by amperage... in order to make sure the amperage of the dryer plug. Some are simply 240v 30amp circuits. If you want to run a 4k or 5k light, you'd need to get a step down transformer which would make a 120v 60amp circuit. Cool huh?
 
I don't know if I want to deal with all that. I was just needing one pretty powerful light to use as a fill. I'm pretty sure a 2K will be overkill for what I need it for. I only considered the 5k because of the price being close to the same.
 
Yeah... those would be 2-30 amp hot legs at 120 volts. Use the range/oven socket instead and you're good. Those are usually 2-120 volt 50 amp legs, but don't do it yourself :shocked:

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There are down transformers which can create one 120v and combined amperage circuit by combining both legs. It also automatically divides the load over the two legs (in the one circuit) so you can use the entire amperage.

I'd take that to a lunch box and get 60amps to either bates or edison cables/connections. That is the most efficient way.

I don't know anything about stove plugs.


Azmyth said:
are we still referring to the 5k?
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Yeah, because a junior would be clear to go on a regular household circuit (household meaning 120v 20amp.)
 
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Sorry guys, I didn't bother to do the math (bad me). But trying to run a 5k on house power is likely asking for trouble for a newbie. Honestly, even running a 2k might be pushing it depending on the house. I'm pretty darn careful where I plug mine in.
 
Hmm.. I'd be using them in several different locations that I can't really change just due to a light socket. We could get a generator, but I don't know that we could keep it quiet enough.

So trying to run a 2K on a house outlet is likely to cause issues?

The main place we'd be running it from is a "party shed" at an RV campground. They have power ran to it, and I don't really know anything about it other than that. We've used mostly CFL's and tungsten fixtures for the majority of the shoot which ate up little power. I know we had to supplement a night shoot one night with some 1k work lamps, and we tripped a breaker at the gas station we were shooting at... but we did have 4 of those bad boys going lol.
 
Is there something that puts out similar light, that would use less power that is around the same price range? I'm buying these used from usedmovielights.com
 
They make whisper quiet generators. Sound blanket barriers and distance from set is a good idea when in doubt.

Running a 2k is not an issue on most household circuits. Check the size of the breaker if you think the house might be 15amps. But remember you can't put much else on the circuit. If it is a twenty amp circuit, then you can only use 2 1k's on it. The reason you tripped another breaker at the gas station is because 4 1k's is 40amps (actually more like 34, but hey) but you put it on one circuit that was only 20amps (maybe 15 if it was old).

Had you put two lamps on one circuit and the other two on another, you would have been fine.


Last of all Better output but not more expensive? No. I can't think of anything. HMI's would be the obvious answer, but in no way will it be in the same price range.
 
Yeah, a much more useful light is going to be the 2k, unless you are going to have an gaffer/electrician to handle power distribution. Just remember use only one per 20 amp circuit.
 
I concur. And remember:

1K - 9 amps
2K - 17 amps
5K - 42 amps

Also keep in mind that adding long or small gauge extensions cords will decrease what you can get out of a circuit.

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Amen Brother Chris. I am amazed to see/talk to a lot of new filmmakers who will drop multiple thousands of dollars on tricking out there camera, support, and audio gear, then buy a decent wattage light kit, and try to power it up with dollar store extension cords. I have done a lot of stupid stuff making guerrilla films, including frying dollar store extension cords, and I have learned a few lessons. Lesson one, respect electricity. If you are using high powered lights, do yourself a favor and get good high quality power cables. I am upgrading my light kit, and am buying short run (25 and 50 feet) heavy duty 12 gauge extension cords. They are not cheap, compared to normal home improvement center or dollar store extension cords, but I am confident that with the use that I am going to put them to, with no lighting unit over 2k, the will work fine, and will last for a long time. Also, NO ORANGE CORDS. Black cords are more likely to be hidden if they have to be in the back ground of a shot.

The second lesson I have learned is respect gravity..... but that is for another thread.
 
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