5.1 Sound

Anhar_Miah

Anhar_Miah

Veteran
Ok, guys this is a very broad question, but ..

what are the general steps and Hardware /software (free would be nice) required to produce 5.1 sound (as in sound capture, mixing, and outputting)?

Any good books or internet sites.

I saw something about doing the mixing in Vegas (AC3, or something) , but it was very vague.

Any success 5.1 audio creation (for DVD) by any users here?

Thanks in Advanced.

Anhar
 
What is it going to be used for? Do you have equipment that you can properly mix a 5.1 setup? IE Compressors, studio monitors, computer, etc...? Why not two channel? Need more info.
 
Well its generally for understanding the process, basically how do the pro's do it AND if possible how would an indie guy do it?

Cheers!

Anhar

EDIT: I just wanted to know really, because I got interested because I was watching some clips from users and thought hmm.. we look at the image so closely yet pay hardly no attention to the sound, if I was gonna make an indie film then I would worry about making great sound, then it hit me how does 5.1 actually get recorded/mixed/encoded??
 
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Hi Anhar:

I've done plenty of surround "mixes", but unlike what's usually done for film, I tend to RECORD in surround, 'cause that's better for the classical music content I tend to produce.

There are many ways to do this, ranging from a near-coincident array of 5 mics pointed outward at the appropriate angles to really widely spaced mics. The most common specialization of this last one is to set a pair of ambience/audeince mics far in the back, and feed these to the rear channels with a stereo mix of everuthing else going to the front.

Since I record using surround techniques, I don't tend to mix/pan much... in fact, I usually don't at all, so any multitrack software works for me most of the time. But if you want to synthesize a surround mix, or even use the good surround effects, yoiu need software that handles surround. You of course need a surround monitoring setup... so at the least you'll need a DAW with 5-8 outputs.

So, for audio recorded in surround, I just edit the tracks, bounce them separately, and feed 'em to the proper channels of the Dolby encoder. For more synthesized/effect-y mixes, I send my recorded audio to a surround-capable tracks, pan/mix/effect these, then bounce them as the separate 5.1 tracks and feed those to the encoder...
 
Anhar Miah said:
EDIT: I just wanted to know really, because I got interested because I was watching some clips from users and thought hmm.. we look at the image so closely yet pay hardly no attention to the sound, if I was gonna make an indie film then I would worry about making great sound, then it hit me how does 5.1 actually get recorded/mixed/encoded??
Click to expand...

Great sound and surround sound are not interchangable ideas. One does not automatically lead to the other. I have mixed several films and only did a 5.1 mix twice. The first one was a waste of time, but good practice for me. The director thought good sound had to be 5.1. It was a dramatic film, mostly dialog driving.

Unless there is a motivating reason for the 5.1 sound, why bother?

Cheers
 
I had never thought of like that, I guess its because we (at least me) want to always do what the "big boys" do aka Hollywood guys.

Anhar
 
i mixed a lot of short films at film school and the directors often had this mentality of "if it isnt 5.1 it sucks"... then a lot of 5.1 mixes sounded bad because they actually didnt have any need for 5.1 in the films, and the mixers needed a stereo version for broadcast so they worked more on that.

then just before I finished 3rd year, some genius had the idea of convincing a director that stereo is so "retro" that it would be original to mix their film that way. Ha ha! Suckered directors. I think the trend is still "5.1 is SO main stream - i'm way arty'er than that, because MY films are stereo." :)

Learn to mix great stereo and 5.1 is a natural extension anhar. I think that all the big boys started out in stereo, (and probably mono most times actually), and 5.1 is a new(ish) evolution in the development of sound. Lucky for us lower level sound people, the learning process is faster for us because the pro's like tomlinson holman blazed the path. Unfortunately, though, we do all still have to start at the beginning.

If you want some really interesting books, that will give you loads to think about, get Jay Rose's books, Tomlinson Holman's (sp?) books, and robert altmans books too. There's also quite a lot of interesting surround stuff on the net (not really much here though, its not really the focus in this group).

Good luck, its fascinating stuff, especially the encoding process.
Tim
 
Depending on your audio editing software you can easily simulate 5.1 without recording it. As in Wabbit's experience, I have worked with people who wanted 5.1, but I have never been set up to do that. On the other hand, when I was doing a post mix I used a 5.1 simulation and they were never the wiser.

I would tend to bet that even on Hollywood productions they sometimes simulate 5.1 more than recording it.

An easy way to simulate is to record a background track... Then record your audio tracks as you normally would. From that point mix in post. Cubase has a great mixing function and the VST plugins can simulate. No one will be the wiser and it is a lot faster.

-Jeremy
 
As far as big budget features and TV shows goes, they usually don't record anything in surround, with the acception of maybe BG's. It usually makes for a more pain in the ass later on in the mix, as far as perspective is concerned. I personally only see recording surround useful for BG's, and for broadcast (the superbowl). That's about it. Ii don't record any effects in surround at all. It's just not useful at all.

Now, as far as mixing goes. Well, you'll need a good DAW (like pro tools TDM or Nuendo), and a good 5.1 speaker system, which is not cheap. Plus, you'll want a good sounding room to do it in. I've never heard a good 5.1 mix come out of someone's "studio" in their apartment. If I am working with a client that wants a surround mix, I take them to a real mix stage, and let a real mixer do it. If they don't want to pay for that, then I do the best sounding stereo mix that I can on my rig, and tell them to screen test it in as many places as they can before they send it off to whatever festival they are trying to get into. I hate mixing in my apartment. It's not that I hate mixing. I just hate mixing in a room where I can hear the people in the building next door trying to create crappy hip-hop music.

-Dave
 
in my experience, its less about how things have been recorded, and more about how sounds are placed in the 360 degree field that 5.1 provides. its essentially just more panning at its most simple level.

surround sound is less about recording surround sound, and more about extending the domain of left-right (stereo) to include back left and right, and hopefully provide a better "suspension of disbelief" through making the fiction of film into reality for a viewer.

tomlinson holman has written a few books, and i havent read that one you linked to, but it looks interesting...
 
Hi guys! I thought I was pretty clear in qualifying that dramatic surround production is generally synthesized rather than recorded using surround techniques. Some people seem to think I was suggesting surround recording for film? Nah! Most film material is recorded in mono, for good reason. I was just giving an example of my personal workflow for whatever help it would provide. For music production, though, surround recording can be extremely useful and is indeed used professionally.

And I'd like to second Mr. Fiske's important comments - good surround monitoring, which is not trivial to achieve, is extremely important!
 
So if an indie guy wanted to make 5.1, he should:

(a) Record Dialouge on one track

(b) record background "effects"

Then shuffle and mix them afterwards to make 5.1?

This "synthesized" method sounds interesting.

Anhar
 
what ullanta means by "synthesized" is that you turn mono effects into surround through panning... no synths involved. :)
 
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