4K and AF200 not on the table... for now anyway.

bgundu

bgundu

Veteran
I was at the ProFusionPro show here in Toronto and asked the Panasonic rep about 4K. He said there is too much competition there and the market is saturated. They will instead focus on smaller chip cameras for documentary and ENG for the time being. The new varicam is not going to be 4K either he said. I also asked about the AF100, and he said that there will not be an update to it, as the GH3 is pretty much going to be their large sensor camera. I was a little surprised about this... anyone else???
 
Not surprising at all.

NAB 2013 showed that Panasonic has ceded both the large (s35) sensor and 4k markets to others who are doing both better.
 
Wow... yeah, I'm pretty surprised by this and not happily so. I really like shooting with the AF100. I have a GH2 and I do not like shooting video with it. I get holding off on 4K but I expected some sort of upgrade. Oh well...
 
Anymore not really surprised...
What could they do to make people happy with a large sensor camera that wouldn't destroy their more expensive small chip cams in IQ?

People want a large sensor, good codecs and 4k AND a great price. Panasonic makes full featured cams not the sensors in a box that can sell cheaper.
 
That's a shame. I always liked the warm saturated colors you seemed to get natively off the Pannie cameras. Panasonic's colour science always seemed a closer match to Kodak's warm rich tones, while Sony offered a more Fuji-like palette and feel. It's sad that they're not even entering the running.
 
From what I've heard, Panasonic is letting the GHx series be their entry into large sensor digital cinema market. They do have plans to develop that line into something that will be very enticing to the professional cinema market, and the things that they're working on with it are really quite exciting.
 
I don't know much about camera development, but i would think it would be much cheaper and less development to upgrade the af100 with a new chip and processor, I can't imagine there wouldn't be enough room considering what were seeing in much smaller form factors these days.
Obviously there's always going to be a market for eng style shooting, But the market for cinematic film production is growing daily, it's becoming rediculously main stream, just go to youtube. I guess by the time you figure out what it costs for R&D, manufacturing, marketing, ect... it isn't really worth the return. What baffles me is, how the hell JVC continues to build cameras, I don't know a single person that uses their cams, and I know a good amount of people in the field. Could it be they use profit from other divisions within the company to fund their camera division, maybe for tax purposes, IDK?
 
Well, I'd ask who you spoke to and if they had authority to make such statements on behalf of the whole company.

Of course there's no AF200 coming any time soon, they just barely got the AF100A on the market. Anyone expecting a follow-up this soon is just being unrealistic.

I don't know what they have planned, but I do remember a situation very similar, back in 2004 when JVC and Sony we're both selling HDV, and Panasonic had nothing high-def at all... Were they "ceding the market"? On the contrary, they were skipping HDV while they prepared the biggest smash hit revolutionary camcorder they ever put out, the HVX200.

Are they planning something equally revolutionary? I don't know. But this all seems familiar and usually, the pendulum swings back sooner or later.
 
cowpunk52 said:
From what I've heard, Panasonic is letting the GHx series be their entry into large sensor digital cinema market. They do have plans to develop that line into something that will be very enticing to the professional cinema market, and the things that they're working on with it are really quite exciting.
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Such as?
 
cowpunk52 said:
From what I've heard, Panasonic is letting the GHx series be their entry into large sensor digital cinema market. They do have plans to develop that line into something that will be very enticing to the professional cinema market, and the things that they're working on with it are really quite exciting.
Click to expand...

Thats good news, but with the Af100 already out there for three years, why wouldn't that be their entry level into large chip cams? I don't doubt what your saying Cowpunk, it just seems odd that they would hold onto a 1,300 dslr, when they have a jewel of a cam with the AF100 that potentially could sell for well between 5-10k depending on what they implement, It's not like the market hasn't spoken to what they want in an upgrade. It's really pretty easy to figure out what people will spend for the given tech. Just look at what Canons done over the last few years, and in a TOUGH economy. Their making money, while so many are barely staying a float. I guess Pani is much more conservative than I originally thought. It appaears the companies that are listening to the consumer, the ones that will take a risk, like Black magic, who before last year has never even built a camera, will be the last ones standing in the cinema market.
 
I agree. If Panasonic would use the reasoning that the AF-100 is just out on the market and it is too early for an upgrade I would say they are moving too slow to compete anyway. Lets face it, the tech is moving at its own pace. You can get on the merry go round or stay off of it. As Maran just posted, it is not rocket science to know what folks wanted from an AF-200 - keep the camera the same just deliver a better image with a better codec. Seems like a natural progression for a version 2 of a product.

I will not try to guess why but Panasonic has decided to not compete very much in this space. And if they are competing, Canon is kicking their butt! :)
 
Barry_Green said:
...But this all seems familiar and usually, the pendulum swings back sooner or later.
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Yes, either that, or it doesn't. Ask any US car maker. Or Nokia. Or Sega. Or...
Not saying it won't happen. Just that it may or may not.

TheDingo said:
...I think Panasonic is biding their time until 2015 when this new sensor technology is ready to roll out with 29 stops of dynamic range.
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That's not the way those numbers work. You divide the dB number by 6, and that's your DR in stops (commenter EEmu is the one who got it right at m43r). So, 60 dB is 10 stops, 90dB is 15 stops, etc. 88dB is nothing to laugh at, but don't even dream of 29 stops, it is exactly half as many.
 
cowpunk52 said:
From what I've heard, Panasonic is letting the GHx series be their entry into large sensor digital cinema market. They do have plans to develop that line into something that will be very enticing to the professional cinema market, and the things that they're working on with it are really quite exciting.
Click to expand...

I am not excited or comforted by the this possibility at all. I think improving the AF100 with it's professional feature set would be more enticing to the professional market than improving a DSLR which will limit it's market price and so it's overall functionality... talk about saturated.
 
Here's to hoping they're waiting to release AVC-LongG before releasing an AF200 (or whatever it will be called) so that it may be included.
 
It almost seems that the broadcast division and consumer division trying to share that m4/3 sensor isn't working out. Panasonic has a history of creating industry "firsts", and just getting into the 4K now and offering the same thing as everyone else isn't their thing. The BMC could have been the Panasonic ground breaking camera. I guess they're back in the lab designing the next best thing :)
 
TheDingo said:
...I think Panasonic is biding their time until 2015 when this new sensor technology is ready to roll out with 29 stops of dynamic range.
Click to expand...

That article is absolutely wrong about how SN ratio in DB converts to photographic EV stop values. A 6dB change = 1/4 the power density of exposure = 1 stop or 1 EV change. So divide the SN value by 6 to get DR range in 1 stop EV values. Human senses respond to power density changes on a logarithmic scale, which is what a 20log value dB scale describes.

An example from the specification for the Kodak/Trusense KAI4050 sensor illustrates how this works. The sensor noise floor is 7 electron volts, maximum full well clip point is 20,000 electron volts. The calculation is 20*log(20,000/7)= 69.1 dB divided by 6 = 11.5 stops.
 
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we really dont need the best camera. but a camera that does its best.
13 stops, avcintra, log, (better overexposure) + af100 features. win.
 
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