4 - 5 K budget for lighting

marquee

Active member
Durabilty, portability and versatility are key points. Any recommendations for full kits or should I buy separates.

Arri, Britek, Mole w/Bogen stands - too many choices. Will be shooting HVX-200 in all different shooting environments.

TIA
 
Full kits main benefitsa are the portability and custom cases. If portability is more important htan sheer power, kits are the way to go.

You should try to buy something in the line of An Arri 4 head Kit ,with a softbox (try the softbox D1 kits at BH) and complement it with one or two diva light kits - They also come in cool cases.

That will be a versatile and excellent quality light kit that will certainly outlast your camera.

If you spend your money right there will be something around 500 dollars to spend along light control and still be inside your 5K budget. Things to get: two C-stands, 4 grip heads and 2 extension arms. Some flags.

Wichever way you go might be determined by what you will be shooting. interviews, fiction, too much exterior shoots (It might be a better deal to skip on the fluorescents and get some silk frames and reflectors), who knows...

From what you are asking I'd go for Arri kit with Divas.
 
Second the Arri, they are in my experience the best light to work with. It may all be in my head, but it seems I have less down time with then then any of the others. Second to the Arris are the Moles, then I'd look at Altmans or LTM. I'd stay away from the micro lights like Lowells, they make work fine for up close interviews, but they don't have the punch for a film set. Though they can work good in a tight place like a car (every light has its purpose). Plus the only time I used a lowelle light the plug melted after only 2.5 hours of use. Florescents are great for soft flat lighting, like a green screen, but I don't like them as primary lighting, there travel is too short and again too hard to control.

Your going to be hard pressed to get a full scale light package for 5K but you can get a good start. As Taubkin said kits are all about convience, if your going to grow into a full lighting package, then you may want to buy seperates. Do some research, go to manufacture sites and put together a list of what you want. Then contact several vendors and see who will give you the best deal. Your spending 5K in one order on lights, while thats not huge, it should be enough to get some discounted pricing.

Also to start out I'd stay with fresnels rather then open face, they give you more control and even lighting.

Before making the decision you may want to check out your local rental market to see whats out there. Is it cheaper to rent grip or lights, then decide should your initial invetment be in lights or light control and rent the lights by the job. A very experienced producer told me it's almost always better to rent the gear then buy it. He said the break even point in his mind would be if your doing about four (very low budget) feature and a dozen commercials a year. Of course he was used to hollywood where everything is readily available.
 
Mole 650k light kit, single Mole 650k soft box, and two KinoFlo four banks. Two C-stands, a few flags and you got a damn good start. That's what my DP and film prod partner got, and it works wonders.
But of course if outdoor shooting is what you do, you gonna need 2 reflectors and you can keep all your lights at home.
 
Thanks for the input, this is absolutely a starter kit. I need something absolutely versatile both for studio and field shoots. I thought about renting but for the amount of money im spending, it will be paid off soon.

So I will get

Arri Softbank II 4 head kit - 3 650 Watt Fresnel and 1000w arrilite 2600.00

Lowel Rifa-lite LC-66 750 Watt - 450.00

Kino flo Diva Lite 400 Kit (2) 2080.00 total

Total - 5130.00

I can do another 1K on stands, flags, reflector, control.

Any recommendations on lighting control kits as well. Also, is it better to buy the highest wattage lights even though the situation may not call for it. Do these lights have a dimming function or would it be wise to buy some addl 300 and 150 watt arri fresnel. I just dont want to be in a situation where I do not have enough lighting since we will be doing multiple setups.

Thanks again, I will buy what you guys recommend.
 
Don't overlook used gear. I've bought some great stuff at a fraction of what they cost new and quality lights will last a lifetime. In fact, of the over 20 lights I have, only 3 were bought new.

Don't forget to buy spare globes for whatever lights you get!

Also must have CTB and diffusion packs! Unless you're going to do music videos you don't really need the multy color packs. Possibly some CTO or Straw for occasions you want to warm something up. C-47s and gloves - must have. Scissors, razor knife, multi-tool like leatherman, multi screwdriver.

Show cards or something similar that you cut into cucoloris or imitation shutters and such - cheap and very useful investment.

as far as lights, it really depends on what you're going to be doing. Below is a good starter.

2- 650s
2- 200s or 420s
1- softbox 250 or 500 or a kino type flo

I like arri as much at the other guys ont his site, but I only own one, and don't recommend them for starters because you're paying too much for the name. Altamn makes some nice 3 to 4-light kits in the 1300 to 1800 range, which leaves you room for a Kino interview kit.

Nice thing about the kino interview kit is you can light subjects without making them sweat.
 
Thanks Icarus,

Sorry I mean starter kit meaning, just the initial purchase or foundation. I will continually add more lighting later.

I wouldnt mind buying used, but I just cant find the stuff that I need. As far as Arri being too expensive, that is fine. I dont mind paying for a quality brand.
 
Prairieboy said:
If you are shooting DV I would highly recomend changing two of those arri 650 heads to 300 heads.


I will be shooting to DVCPRO HD tape until Firestore comes on in March of next year. I was thinking of adding 2 more Arri 300 fresnel to the 650s. What situation would call for a 150?
 
Before you go too far with buying, check out http://www.kayelites.com

Call them up and see what kind of deal they have on hand. I got a really good deal on a so called used Arri's 4 kit. I'd sell my dog to ya for a dollar if those lights were used more than 5 total hours! Oh and get a sheet or roll of Frost while you are at it.
 
It's true that used stuff easily falls in either category, or it seems new (M- if it was record!) or it seems to have made the cinema history since Lumiere brothers (Fair if it was a record)... In some places is difficult to find though.
 
marquee said:
TAlso, is it better to buy the highest wattage lights even though the situation may not call for it. Do these lights have a dimming function or would it be wise to buy some addl 300 and 150 watt arri fresnel. I just dont want to be in a situation where I do not have enough lighting since we will be doing multiple setups.

Having high wattage is great. If you don't need the power, you can always scrim down, flood it, or simply bring the light back further.

The real problem is when you are using total wattage that is above the limits for the household circuits, wih is something to avoid with all your strenghts when shooting low budget, because it will ask for more complicated power solutions, such as tapping the breaker box or renting generators, or asking the power company to make a special wiring for you (I don't know how it's called over there, here we call it "event power"). Anyways, you shouldn't be attemting any of those unless you know what you are doing (licensed electrician) since you could die trying. The kit you described so far is a good choice, pretty much in the limit of acceptable for house circuits.
 
Hi all:

I have been shooting a lot of interviews with my DVX-100A over the past two years as well as tabletop, narrative scenes and action scenes, really a whole variety of stuff. A few things that I have discovered that may help you to decide on lighting packages:

Personally, I find that everyone who has posted on this thread so far has way under-recommended on grip equipment, IMHO.

The light stands that come with all of the kits suck as far as versatility and sturdiness. They are okay when you are shooting alone or with a small crew or have flown to a location and have to bring a minimal amount of gear but when doing local shoots or shoots with a larger crew, those flimsy stands take up a lot of floor space and are not the best. An investment in a few "real" light stands, especially in American Grip brand light stands will make you happy. The other strike against the Arri Softbank kit is that it only comes with a small Chimera (which is handy to have) but as a main key source, the medium Chimera is capable of much more output and a more lush quality because it is larger. The small is okay to begin with but talk to most DPs and they covet the medium over the small.

My previous main cameras were the BVW-D600 and the DVW-700 Beta and DBeta cameras. I find that the DVX-100A has a lot more sensitivity than the larger, more expensive cams. At 24P, I rate the DVX-100A at 600-800 ASA which is really sensitive, these cameras need very little light to create GREAT pictures, I am assuming that the HVX-200 will be in a similar range as far as sensitivity. My favorite lights as of late are the Arri 150 fresnels, I love them. I recently had to shot an antique book in a small, very picturesque library for an opening title sequence. I used the DVX-100A on a 3 foot micro-jib and lit the book and the entire library with nothing but 3 Arri 150s and some cinefoil for flagging. The end result is some of the prettiest footage I have ever shot, it was used for a show intro for a new documentary that is releasing October 25th.

My favorite interview setup is an Arri 650 fresnel through a medium quartz Chimera with the internal diffusion baffle and a 40 degree egg crate on the front as my key source, a 48" white flexfill as my fill and an Arri 150 fresnel as my hair light. With women of a certain age, I might work another Arri 150 fresnel right next to the camera lens with some diffusion and a couple of scrims as an eye light/extra fill.

The Arri 300s are my favorite light to light up backgrounds, they are great for creating a nice colored slash across a wall or piano (a lot of the people I interview are wealthy and having a grand piano in the BG is always nice ;-)

I own about a dozen lights but with the DVX-100A, I basically have retired my 2k Mightys and my 1k fresnels and open faced since this camera is so sensitive. I am beginning to whittle down a smaller travel kit that will serve me 90% of the shoots I do and it will contain the following:

1 Arri 650 fresnel
1 Arri 300 fresnel
3 Arri 150 fresnels

I happen to like the Arri lights and own two Arri lighting kits, the Softbank IV kit is basically made of the lights above, you would just have to add an additional 150 to make "my kit".

A bunch of other stuff that nobody here has mentioned yet:

2-3 1,000 watt quality dimmers
A double, single, half double, half single scrim for every light in your kit
A scrim bag for every light in your kit
barndoors for every light in your kit (not all vendors include barndoors on individual lights although in the kits they always do)
At least half a dozen 25' x 3 way 12 gauge AC stingers
Duvetine (heavy black flame proof sackcloth, a couple of pieces about 18' x 10' tall would make your life easier for blacking out windows)
Ground lifters
Tons of black gaffer tape, white paper tape, double sided tape
Outlet testers
48" Flexfill and or foamcore
A-frame clips
Grip clips
Bag of 50 C-47s
2-4 Mafer clamps with spuds
I am happiest with 6-7 c-stands, personally I use a lot of C-stands, they are so handy for arming out a hair light, holding the flexfill, flags, kooks, etc. I don't think you can ever have enough. Also consider buying half a dozen steel regular c-stands, PLUS buy two aluminum Manfrotto Avenger c-stands with the detachable bases, you can actually fit the bases into a large suitcase when you fly and put the two stands in a tripod tube along with your tripod. It's nice to fly to a shoot and have at least a couple of c-stands with you)
Plenty of solids (using these little lights, I am beginning to like little flags like the 18" x 12" ones - my large 36" flags don't get used very much these days)
Double and single nets
A silk or two
A nice assortment of sandbags (I have a pile of 25lb ones, realistically you only need a few, then get some 5-10lb smaller ones, these smaller lights don't always need the big mother sandbags)
Full set of appleboxes
T-bar spuds (great for hanging those 150s off of suspended ceilings)
vise grips with a spud

I could go on and on but you need to allocate MORE $$$ to gripology, it's at least as important as lighting IMHO. I interviewed a famous author the other day at his home in LA. I had forgotten my own lighting kit at home (lame me) and I had to divide the Arri kit we had left at work with another DP doing another interview at work. All I had was a 1K open face and a 150 fresnel. I ran the 1k through my medium Chimera and just doubled up on scrims, used the 150 for a hair light and my trusty flexfill as a fill source. I used two of my dimmers to dim down two practical lamps on a table behind him. It looked really nice and I hardly had any lighting gear, it's all about having an eye and using what is available to your best advantage.

I also agree, used lighting can be a GREAT deal as can used grip equipment. You can usually find normal c-stands with the 40" arm for about $150.00 new but how about $80.00 used. I bought half of my c-stands new and the other half used.

Best of luck,

Dan
 
marquee, I may be missing something but how are you going to record DVCPRO HD to tape? The HVX (I thought) could only record DVCPRO HD to P2 cards, just something to think about.
 
I second that. Thanks Dan!! Today I just started looking at grip equipment. Now I have a much better idea what to look for. By the way. Where do you look for used c-stands and grip equip?
Thanks,
Mike
 
Dan,
You list Duvetine to black out windows. One of my pet peevs when watching HGTV is the blown out light comming in the windows. Do you recomend blacking them out? I had always thought that gelling windows to include the natural light and exterior scenery would be better. Or, is it a sometimes one works, sometimes the other kind of thing? If gelling works, what gel should be used, CTO? CTO and ND? Does anyone make a CTO/ND for window gelling?

Thanks,
Mike
 
Speaking of Grip accessories, does anyone have opinions on the different clamp-on light mounts that are available. Looking at Markertek's website, there are a number of different brands/models. Matthews', Smith Victor's, spring clamps, pipe mount c-clamp types. I was kind of fancying the Matthews Gaffer Grip, but I like the Smith Victor 's price better.
Any ideas?
 
puredrifting, that was a very good post. However, I really think the best way to learn is keep it simple. I feel that is someone first get a light kit, they will start to feel the needs for specific grip acessories. Then they can search for them individuality, since some of the grip stuff you mention has some to do with personal style and tastes.

I dig your wattages. I just am a little afraid to put chimera in anything less powerful than a 1K, and loose too much light. Sometimes we can't black out the windows and have to do that ridiculous gel cliping to the chimera. That's when a 1K can make some difference.

I think that a person has to master using their barndoors effectively before they start to use flags and silks. Still, very informative post, thanks for that!

Cheers!
 
Hi Mike:

I have bought used grip equipment from Moletown in Hollywood and from these guys http://www.woodennickellighting.com/

I don't like to typically deal with sunlight on interiors unless I have to so you are correct, I typically use Duvetine to black out the windows. On rare occasions when we have the time and crew available, I do like to ND the windows and use them in the compositions but most of the time, we don't have the time to come into someone's home and gel all of the windows. If you are shooting interiors and matching tungsten instruments to daylight, you would typically gel the instruments with CTB to match the daylight.

Smith Victor is the low end stuff. Matthews and Norms are my favorites for grip gear.

Taubkin, I agree in regards to the grip gear, but I have been doing this for close to 20 years and I know that you quickly discover that you need a lot of these little extras to be able to make great setups versus just good ones with what the kits come with. Items like dimmers for practicals are essential, at least when shooting out of the studio. True, much of it is to my taste and everyone will have variations on these items but the point is that you need to "think outside the case", so to speak.

As far as the 1k for the medium Chimera, a game that I play is that when in the studio here, if we are only keying with the medium Chimera, at times I can get away with just using a 300 watt instead of the 650 through the Chimera. I can use a 1k but half of the time, I am scrimming it down so much, I thought, "why not just use the 650 instead?" Less heat and less draw on wall outlets when stacked with the other lights, the video monitor, etc. You can use a 1k, but in most situations, shooting with the DVX-100A at 24P, you won't need it. However, if you do need to correct using CTB on the Chimera, I agree, you need at least a 1k since a sheet of full CTB probably knocks off at least a couple of stops of output.

Yes, barndoors are important, however, I find that I almost always need a solid on my hairlight to avoid lens flares and I need a small solid for doing that so I can cut the output to just below the lens on the camera.

Glad you found the post informative.

Best,

Dan
 
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