30p rendering has "ghosting".

[pmaimz]

Hello everyone!

I'm new and I came here with a question.
Over the weekend I filmed a video with the 5D at 24p.
In editing, I edited on a 24p timeline, but rendered to 30p. Why?
If I render at 24p, the audio becomes un-synced.

My question is, does this have to do with the fact that I render in 30p from 24p footage,
or from the fact that I don't convert my files to ProRes, as most people do.

Thanks for your help. Here's a picture of the "ghosting".

 

[Gabrobot]

Is this in CS4? CS4 has frame blending turned on by default, and that's what you're seeing. In the export dialog, make sure frame blending is turned off.

 

[Jim Simon]

If I render at 24p, the audio becomes un-synced.

Solve that. It's not normal.

 

[Vandrei]

What is the sequence profile you use to create a 24p timeline?

 

[David Jimerson]

You will pretty much always get ghosting if you try to convert 24p to 30p (or the other way). No way around it, no matter the software. It's math.

 

[Gabrobot]

You will pretty much always get ghosting if you try to convert 24p to 30p (or the other way). No way around it, no matter the software. It's math.

If frame blending is turned off in Premiere then it just irregularly drops or adds frames instead...motion is slightly off, but you have whole frames. After Effects can do a good job of interpolating between the frames using the time warp effect.


As for the audio sync, I've never had an issue with the 5d shooting to 24p, but I did have problems back when it shot 30p (not 29.97, back when it was actually just 30p). Did you (OP) re-interpret the clip by any chance? Like interpret a 23.976 clip as a 24p clip?

 

[David Jimerson]

That is the other way you can go, but in my opinion, it's even less palatable.

 

[Gabrobot]

That is the other way you can go, but in my opinion, it's even less palatable.

I don't know, pretty much everyone's already used to seeing 3:2 pulldown from watching movies on VHS and DVD.

 

[David Jimerson]

Not at all the same thing. A 2:3 pulldown divides the 24 frames into a 60 hz (interlaced or progressive) stream. The motion is comparably considerably smoother because you have the space to pad out decently well. You simply don't have the room in a 30 fps stream to pad it out smoothly -- you get a lot more choppiness. Frame-blending, at least, smooths out the motion, but the cost is ghosting.

Bottom line -- there's no good conversion from 24p to 30p (unless you have almost no motion, but what would be the point of that?).

 

[Gabrobot]

Not at all the same thing. A 2:3 pulldown divides the 24 frames into a 60 hz (interlaced or progressive) stream. The motion is comparably considerably smoother because you have the space to pad out decently well. You simply don't have the room in a 30 fps stream to pad it out smoothly -- you get a lot more choppiness. Frame-blending, at least, smooths out the motion, but the cost is ghosting.

Bottom line -- there's no good conversion from 24p to 30p (unless you have almost no motion, but what would be the point of that?).

Pretty sure the standard pulldown for 24 -> 60i only has one interlaced frame...but I do agree that generally 24<->30 conversions are messy and undesirable.

 

[David Jimerson]

A 2:3 pulldown to 60i has two mixed "frames." But it really doesn't matter because only one field is shown at a time.

The point is, you have 36 extra motion samples per second to play with to pad out 24 fps to 60 hz. You have only 6 for 24 fps to 30 fps.