24pn or 24pa

X

xort

Well-known member
It was my impression that if you are considering film out then 24pa is the choice otherwise 24pn.
I'm starting a doc that will get television release and MAYBE film release. The editor, with FCP, is asking for 24Pn.
Any thoughts?
At this point I'm going with 24Pn, detail @ mid setting and gamma @ cine-like_D.
 
Re: 24pn or 24pa

Yes, for FILM output 24PA will give you cleaner results than standard 24P... HOWEVER, either can be taken to film.

The difference is in the pulldown read http://www.adamwilt.com/24p
for film the 24PA will transfer best as you get a nice progressive scan image for every frame, where as with standard 24P you will end up with a duplicate frame...

bottom line, 24PA is best for film output!
 
Re: 24pn or 24pa

OK, so 24PA is better for film out. But how 'bad' is 24PA for television release? Or would it be identical in quality to 24Pn for video?
We know we'll have a television release, we MAY have a film release. So do we go 24P because that is better than 24PA in the video world? IF 24P is better than 24PA for video then I think we'll favor that route. But if it's a tie between the two then it makes sense to go 24PA just in case...
 
Re: 24pn or 24pa

24p is recorded with 3:2 pulldown so it will be just like film transfered to video. You can edit this in a 29.97 timeline without going to 24fps so can release on normal video.

24p and 24pa can both go to 24fps timeline. 24pa can be removed on the fly to make it raw 24fps. 24p needs to go through a 3:2 pulldown removal.

Once in 24 timeline either of these can have 3:2 pulldown added so that it plays on regular video.

If you're relasing on DVD and your DVD supports it you can save it as 24fps and the DVD player will add the 3:2 pulldown on playback.
 
Re: 24pn or 24pa

Sorry Scott but you didn't answer my question. Is 24P BETTER than 24PA for video release to television. No mention of DVD.
I'm trying to decide on which for a TELEVISION release with a SECONDARY possibility of a FILM release.
Thanks
 
Re: 24pn or 24pa

24p allows you to just play it straight to tv and look as if it were film transfered to video. It's the easiest solution if you just want straight television at 24 fps.

24pa will stutter a bit because it's duplicating frames instead of mixing them as fields as 24p does. If you shot 24pa for the sole purpose of TV (ignoring DVD and film) then you woudl have to go through another step (3:2 pulldown addition) which is already provided in the original 24p mode.

Bottom line: 24p is best for 24 fps images seen in pure video (60i) with no monkeying with pulldown or added steps.

24pa easiest for some editing systems when doing pure 24 fps edits.
Slightly better quality than 24p (for 24 fps usage) just because the system doesn't have to deinterlace and recombine and recompress.

If you knew you wanted to go to film and/or 24 fps dvd then 24pa would be the cleaner way to go since you'd finish your edit for these formats (@ 24 fps) and still have the option of adding 3:2 to get 60i using the same edit.

if you've taken 24p footage in a video edit (60i) then it may be difficult to get a clean 24 fps version of your edit if you don't watch which frames you edit. (i.e. if you cut on a frame spread out over to multiple video frames)
 
Re: 24pn or 24pa

I shot my feature 24padvanced with the dvx(not dvx100A). Had the hassle with advanced pulldown removal, then constant problems with sound editing sync. My show will most certainly never make it to the big screen, the hassles I've had with 24padvanced won't be rewarded with a film release.

I've started shooting shorts in 24pnormal mode. I capture 29.97, I edit 29.97, my sound editor has no sync problem, and i'm done no problem.

I'm sure this isn't an issue anymore, but sometimes in 24padvanced I got a "jittery" picture. That never happens in the normal mode.

for me, the way I see it until I'm "shown the light" I'll continue to shoot 24pnormal which gives me pretty cool looking stuff, way better and more filmish than other dv cams on the market.

Best bet for you... go shoot some tests in both modes. Take it to your editor, let him do some tests, including printing back to tape, then decide. your editor is asking for 24pnormal because that is what he knows, so if he's the type of guy who can tackle the unknown, maybe 24padvanced is fine, if you know he can do an awesome job with 29.97, I'd stick with that.
 
Re: 24pn or 24pa

Thanks to Scott, Stab, et. al.
I wish I had time for testing. I wanted to do that. Schedule is not in my control. Starting tomorrow!
 
24p on 29.97 timeline is still providing the look of 24fps.
(of course it now has interlace lines like any film transferred to video tape)
 
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