24pa mixed with 60i in a 24fps timeline is that healthy?

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dmitriandsnow

Well-known member
I am just worried and looking out for future...
I shot 60i and inserted that into 24fps timeline, will i be able to properly render this to DVD or should i start shooting 24p normal instead? it is 4:30am i am not functioning so perhaps you guys can help... My film wants to consist of slow motion 60i and 24pa footage is that possible if i want to go to DVD?
Also can i remove the letterbox that were set in camera? cut them out completely so to only see 720 to 360 or so... ooo sleep is not overrated guys!
good night
 
Hopefully they're using Vegas, as this Q was posted in the Vegas forum! :-) (BTW, how do I insert the icons instead of my old school smiley face?)

I heard from Barry Green though that you DON'T want to mix 24PA footage on a 60i timeline ... but that you CAN mix 24P footage onto a 60i timeline. 24PA should be edited strictly on 24P timelines/projects.

Remove the letter box that was set in camera? What do you mean? Once you shoot letter box, you WILL forever have black bars on the video unless you wanted to ZOOM in to fit to a 4:3 frame, but then quality would go down the pooper.
 
It wasn't posted in the Vegas forum originally.

Depending on what you want to do, you can bring the 60i footage into the 24p timeline, especially if you want to use it for slo-mo. At default settings, it will work, but if you want to manipulate it, you’ll generally want to set your deinterlace to interpolate and your resample to none, if it’s not already.

24pA is not ideal for working in a 60i timeline, but it will work.

As for getting rid of the letterbox, set your project settings to Widescreen, choose the 16:9 preset in the pan/crop, and at default settings, the picture will then stretch out to fill the preview screen. No black bars. However, you’re better off right-clicking the preview screen and choosing “simulate device aspect ratio” when you do that.

But, even if you’re working in a 4:3 project, you’re probably going to want to get rid of the DVX letterbox bars, because they are PART OF the picture. Any effects you apply will be applied the them, too – color, ripples, page curls, etc., the black will be part of it. You don’t want that. Get rid of them.
 
Jubal28 said:
But, even if you’re working in a 4:3 project, you’re probably going to want to get rid of the DVX letterbox bars, because they are PART OF the picture. Any effects you apply will be applied the them, too – color, ripples, page curls, etc., the black will be part of it. You don’t want that. Get rid of them.
Click to expand...

How will they get rid of the black bars without zooming in and reducing the quality of the footage, not to mention losing video on the sides that they may have wanted in the frame?
 
There will still be black bars, but they will be the black of the track, not the picture itself. It won't be affected by (most) transitions or color correction, etc..

If you want to get rid of the black bars entirely but still retain the entire picture, you have to work in a widescreen project. But even then, if you go to DVD and play on a normal TV, you'll have black bars again.
 
I know what you're talking about with regards to black bars being effected ... the reason I always do what you're talking about with the widescreen settings, etc ... black bars, but not of the picture/footage itself.

However, you mentioned if they were working in a 4:3 project, so I'm envisioning that they have a cropped clip in a 4:3 project, mixed with 4:3 clips/frames, and want to get RID of the black bars in their cropped shots (i.e. fill the 4:3 frame with their cropped 16:9 footage).

Maybe I'm just missing the boat completely, and that was never the concern.
 
I am shooting anamorphic + adding the bars (to get the 2.35:1 ratio). So i am editing widescreen 16:9 and i still have the bars. I added the bars in camera. I was wondering if there is a way to cut them out completely or add on "vegas" bars that will not be effected to color correcting...
Also I am editing in 24fps timeline not 60i... I am editing shots that are 60i in a 24fps timeline for slow motion... This is the main problem, i want to go to dvd as a final output. Will i be able to properly do that if i mix 24PA and 60I in a 24fps timeline? This is a pulldown problem... I think Vegas will apply pulldown to 24PA but what will result of my 60i material?
Thank you for replies!
 
dmitriandsnow said:
I am shooting anamorphic + adding the bars (to get the 2.35:1 ratio). So i am editing widescreen 16:9 and i still have the bars. I added the bars in camera. I was wondering if there is a way to cut them out completely or add on "vegas" bars that will not be effected to color correcting...
Click to expand...

Yes. What you need to do is crop them out. You'll still see black bars (can't avoid it), but they won't be affected by any color correction, etc..


Also I am editing in 24fps timeline not 60i... I am editing shots that are 60i in a 24fps timeline for slow motion... This is the main problem, i want to go to dvd as a final output. Will i be able to properly do that if i mix 24PA and 60I in a 24fps timeline? This is a pulldown problem... I think Vegas will apply pulldown to 24PA but what will result of my 60i material?
Thank you for replies!
Click to expand...

You're using the NLE which hands down handles 24p -- in all respects -- better than all the others. You can render out a 24p file and have no trouble making a 24p DVD.

Now, you will probably still see a difference between the 24p footage and the 60i footage, because they're different animals, and you're going to lose resolution when the 60i is deinterlaced. You can't avoid that. 60i footage starts out at a lower resolution than 24p to begin with, and when you interpolate a full frame out of a single field, you only have half the information to go on. It's not going to be a night/day difference, and the difference in playback rate (the slo-mo) will probably mask some of the difference, because anyone watching already expects some kind of difference because it's slower.

But you'll have no technical problems. Once you render out as 24p, it's 24p, not a mixed file.
 
Thanks a lot Jubal, it is very clear now... Couple last questions, how do i crop the bars in Vegas? Do i need to alter something in order to interpolate a frame out of the field or should i make sure something is turned on? So when i render as "DVD Architect 24p NTSC Widescreen video stream" it adds a 3:2 pulldown to the interpolated frames, i think i understand...
 
Look up "pan/crop" in the Help file. Basically, you'd use the black bars as your guide and just cut them out.

You pick your deinterlace method in the project properties, and you choose to disable resample in the clip properties (right-click on it).

Once you render the project, the 60i will become 24p, just like the rest of the footage. Pulldown flags will be added to the whole file.
 
Beautiful! That concludes i continue shooting 24pa and 60i! Thanks David! Besides why do people mark their lcd screens for 16:9 when you can simply select the same option in camera and later crop it out in Vegas! Vegas can do anything...


By the way, i am going to send you the DVD copy of the short i am shooting. I see you are three hours away from me. Sometime in August i expect to finish everything...
 
Because shooting full-frame, without the bars, gives you more leeway in post if you want to reframe the shot or even introduce a camera tilt which isn't in the footage. I never shoot with bars.

You would be surprised how much a simple reframing can add a ton of drama to a shot. Why eliminate any options?
 
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