24pA in standard timeline?

smier33

smier33

Active member
I've captured some 24pA footage w/ the Vegas Capture program, and then worked with it in a standard Vegas 29.97 timeline.

Does Vegas automatically adjust the footage so that its playable in a 29.97 timeline? Does this happen when I capture or edit? Everything seems perfectly fluent and in sync.

So am I making a mistake by editing in a 29.97 timeline? Or is Vegas automatically adjusting the footage for me?

Should I just stick with a 23.97 timeline?
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

The 24p footage is recorded to tape as 60i, 29.97 framerate. It's captured that way, too, and if the pulldown isn't removed (as it would not be if you're working on a 29,97 timeline), you're golden. This is one of the THE MOST USEFUL aspects of the DVX -- it records 24p footage which can be edited in any NLE, 24p timeline or not. Vegas is actually "adjusting" the footage to work in 24p, not the other way around . . .

Whether or not you're "making a mistake" depends on MANY factors. If you have no intention of going to filmout or making a 24p DVD, it doesn't really matter all that much. If all you're using is 24p footage, there's no reason NOT to edit in 24p, as you'll have every rendering option still available to you, but you're not necessarily wrong in editing 60i -- especially if you're mixing footage from other, non-24p camcorders.

Vegas is optimized for 24p, so you'll get a great result editing that way. Some recommend editing that way no matter what. But you don't *have* to.
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

The only downside to editing 24pa footage in a 60i timeline is that the cadence isn't as smooth as it is with the 24pn footage, as you have 1 duplicate frame every 5 frames.
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

So, scharky...

would you recommend editing my 24pA footage in a 23.98 timeline at all times? Even if I'm not planning on a filmout or 24p DVD?
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

Sorry; I guess I missed that you were referring to 24pA footage. You're probably better off editing in 24p . . . but again, you CAN edit in 60i.

If you're planning to edit in 60i (because you have other 60i footage), shoot 24pN.
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

[quote author=smier33 link=board=Vegas;num=1088777356;start=0#3 date=07/02/04 at 08:28:26]So, scharky...

would you recommend editing my 24pA footage in a 23.98 timeline at all times? Even if I'm not planning on a filmout or 24p DVD?[/quote]



yes, absolutely. That is what it is made for.
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

Okay great. Because I have personally enjoyed the look of 24pA slightly better than the 24pN. I will edit all of my 24pA footage in a 23.98 timeline from here on out, but...in order to be most effective...will I need to "remove" the pulldown before I start editing it? How would I do this?

Also, can I still output from the 23.98 timeline into a 29.97 video file? And what would be the best way to go about this?
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

Vegas will remove the pulldown automatically when you place into a 24p timeline.

You can output in any format you like -- if you want to do it at 29.97, choose one of the DV templates. You can re-add pulldown if you like, or you can output as a straight 29.97 file with no pulldown.
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

What are the advantages/disadvantages of adding a pulldown when I export to 29.97?
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

If you add pulldown, the 24p frames can be re-extracted later -- for further editing on a 24p timeline, etc..

Disadvantages -- slightly longer renders, larger filesize.

What uses did you have in mind for exporting as 29.97?
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

[quote author=scharky link=board=Vegas;num=1088777356;start=0#2 date=07/02/04 at 08:23:20]The only downside to editing 24pa footage in a 60i timeline is that the cadence isn't as smooth as it is with the 24pn footage, as you have 1 duplicate frame every 5 frames.[/quote]
Minor correction: it's not really a "duplicate" frame, it's a blended frame made from the fields of two separate 24P frames. So it's a little smoother than just a duplicate frame would be, but obviously not as smooth as 24PN would be.
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

Well in order for me to export to a 29.97 DVD, VHS, AVI, & DIVX.
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

No reason for pulldown in those instances, if that's all you want. Best way to go to VHS is to print to tape and transfer from Mini-DV to VHS.

But you can make 24p DVDs which will save you 20% of the room on the disc. See the Sony 24p whitepaper on that.
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

Are most DVD's printed in 24p? Or are they a 29.97 NTSC video file? Because all of the DVDs I have made up to this point have been 29.97 video...

I guess I'm still just a little iffy about how I want to start exporting my files now that I am shooting with the 100A. Is there a real visible difference between a 23.98 file & a 29.97 file when being viewed off of a Mini-DV tape?

and...if I'm going to go out to 29.97 everytime, should I still edit in a 23.98 timeline?
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

Anything viewed from a tape IS 29.97. There's no "file," a print to tape is in 60i.

A 24p DVD will look sharper on a screen able to display 480p (digital TVs); there won't be much, if any, of a difference on a standard TV.

Editing 24pA is, as Scharky pointed out, better in a 23.98 timeline.
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

Okay, great. I almost have all of my concerns resolved. haha.

So, let me see if I can interpret the best to do...

Capture as a standard video file from Vegas's capture program (I assume this captures it as a 29.97 DV AVI file), then import that clip into a 23.98 timeline, where I'll edit it. I won't need to do anything with the pulldown? As it should take care of this automatically...?

And then, unless I'm printing to tape, export everything as a 24p file. 24p MPGs, DivX's, etc. And when I need to export to tape, export as a 29.97 DV AVI file.

I think I just may have it down now. Let me know if this sounds like the correct procedure to follow. And thanks a bunch everyone!
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

The footage is captured as 60i, but if you haven't monkeyed with anything, the default position for Vegas is to allow pulldown removal when you open a 24p project. You'll be set. Automatic.

You don't have to export an AVI file to print to tape. This is done from the timeline.

Exporting 24p files in all other cases (where the codec allows) won't hurt you, but it also won't necessarily do you much good unless you're going to DVD or filmout. The filesize will be smaller, though.

I suppose it's possible that someone's (software) media player won't be able to handle the framerate if it's in 24p, but I don't think that's too much of a concern.

Remember that the DV format is 60i, so if you export as DV, it will be 60i. Pulldown insertion is at your lesiure.
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

May I chime in for a sec. I think I understand as well, but let me throw in a question. What if you have recorded your video at F5 on the DVX and you only want to make a DVD of your work that will play on any television? I think I understand what is being said but like some on this forum I am (very) new to Vegas and now this group that I have recorded is so excited over the recording that they want a DVD of it and I'm not sure (yet) of what settings I need to set in Vegas just to get them a good looking DVD. Would I follow the settings suggested above?
 
Re: 24pA in standard timeline?

You can edit in a 24p timeline after recording either in F5 or F6. What you do after that is identical in either case.
 
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