24pa and final cut question...

R

ROKOKO

Well-known member
Note i have a DVX100B

I've seen some posts on here about this but none give a total overview of this. can someone give me the definitive way to import 24pa footage into final cut pro 4 or 5 without any problems. i.e. capturing settings, timeline settings etc. I want to make sure i'm doing it right and that the picture will not be compromised when exported or turned to a dvd. Right now i am seeing some artifacting and jaggedies, but maybe it is just my monitor.

also for some reason when i make a 24p timeline and lay in my footage it has to render the video. why is this?
 
If you shoot F6 which is 24padvanced mode...

Capture using the advanced pulldown removal preset.
Edit with your sequence setting at 23.98. not 24, that's why you have to render.

That's it!

NOTE - I'd really like a better sticky regarding 24p than the one that exists. Can't we have Scottdvx100's page or Nattress's page instead?
 
i just tried the pulldown removal AND made the timeline 24 and it worked. didn't do 23.98.

thanks
 
>i just tried the pulldown removal AND made the timeline 24 and it worked. didn't do 23.98.

I hate to say it but you're asking for it. Especially if it's a long sequence.
FCP will autoconvert any frame rate to any other frame rate. Unfortunately it doesn't do it well.
Just as you don't set a sequence to 30fps for 29.97 material you don't want to set 23.98 to 24.
 
can you tell me why 24 pa footage would not work in a 24fps timeline but would need to be in a 23.98? i just want to understand. thanks
 
It's based on the fact that it's actually running at 23.98
Video is 29.97 or 59.94i even though we say 60i.
Take a look at your fps for the clips that yo ucapture with advanced pulldown removal. They shoudl say 23.98
By putting them in a 24fps timelien there will be a slight difference that fcp will try to accomidate.
 
so then what is the problem that could happen from putting it in a 24fps timeline? i mean i've seen no issues so far. what should i be concerned about possibly happening?
 
Apparently you want to do it at 24fps... so go right ahead.

Maybe Scott can answer your question, my feeling on it is when it comes to technical stuff, use the proper techniques!

I'm surprised you haven't had to render the footage to view it properly.

How tough is it to change over to 23.98 and do it the right way? Copy the cut footage from the 24fps timeline. Create a 23.98 sequence, paste into this sequence... no fear of future problems.

Just a guess here but you may run into problems when going to export the movie. Pulldown gets added back in to go to tape and to be played on tv's through dvd. This is where problems could arise(this is merely a guess though).
 
"If you shoot F6 which is 24padvanced mode..."

This may be a dumb question, but I shot 24pa set on another 'F'

and I captured the footage as 24p advanced pulldown.
---
so I get an image with no definition, blurry, during playback; it looks fine when I pause it, though.
And my final cut is crashing when I try to change the sequence settings.

Is it the case of recapturing all the footage as 29.97, and changing the settings from the beginning of the project?
Or can I use what I have and get the most out of the footage?
---
 
By default F5 is 24p and F6 is 24pa. All other settings are 60i.
Did you go in and change these settings and save them?
Taht's fine but first you shoudl be sure you shot it at 24pa mode.
Check the tape in the camera with all display settings turned on.
If FCP is crashing you may want to repair permissions and do a repair under Disk Utilities.
It's possible you may have a corruptt pref fiel that needs to be deleted.

For your existing footage check the info in the bin window (expand the width)
What frame rate does it say there? 24pa advance with removal should be 23.98
 
thanks for the response,

I don't know how to check the tape in the camera(as vcr or camera?vcr only says sp, camera gives the F1 settings on the screen)
but what I know is:
the tapes were recorded on F1, set to: progressive > 24p(adv), it is still saved to that. The 24pa on top left is there; and the guy who did the camera work knew more about the dvx than I do.

I captured the footage as advanced pulldown 2332.
The clips do say 23.98, but I have just noticed that the sequences were set to 24 fps; I couldn't open sequence settings even after repairing permissions, or deleting the pref file, so I created another project with 23.98 sequences and pasted the footage, and it is still bad.

I will try to explain "bad" with my own words: soft, blurry image-as if there was a constant dissolve between the current frame and the next one or two, during playback. The contours are not well defined. If I pause it it looks fine.
if someone told me that, I would think that the footage was not shot 24pa, but was capture as such, but I'm positive it was.
---

I follow your logic, Scott, and it makes perfect sense.

I am worried because all of this project was shot using chroma, and the contours (like the rest of the image) are soft; it is not a problem of focus, because the image looks sharp when paused;

I am writing the scene file settings, but I don't think that was it

detail level>+2
v detail level >0
detail coring>0
chroma level>+2
chroma phase>0
color temp>+2
master ped>-5
a. iris level>0

gamma>cine-like
knee>mid
matrix>cine-like
skin tone dtl>on

v detail freq >thin

progressive 24p(adv)

...

I just have no clue why this is happening,

thanks
 
A couple of thoughts: if you shot with a low shutter speed (1/24 or slower) you would get blurry motion but it sounds like it looks ok when you stop(?)
How does it look when you playback from a deck or camera to a video monitor? If it looks back from the camera then the original material is at fault.

Try single framing through the clip. Do those frames look good?
It's possible fcp is having a hard time outputting in real time with added pulldown and may be dropping resolution.
Check your playback pref settings to make sure they're 2:3:2:3 and quality is set to high.

Try exporting straight Quicktime and then playing that back in QT player. When in QT Player make sure to set playback to high quality. Does it look the same? Better?
 
thanks for the answer,
but my problem persists.

I changed the playback setting to 2323, it was wrong.
I am recording at full quality.
it did look slightly better I believe.

When you say single framing you mean pausing, or exporting a still image, or neither? When I pause it in fcp, or when I export a still image, it looks way sharper. It looks great, frame by frame, on the canvas, at full screen.

When I exported straight quicktime, it played the same(blurry), but when I pause it, the image is not as sharp as in fcp, it is blurry like during playback.
I could not change the quicktime's playback setting, I'm using qt 6.5pro.

I will call a friend who has a monitor and try that tomorrow.

I am as dumb as it gets about those things, but it feels like the fields are not working properly in some way(are there fields in progressive to begin with?), or something like a conflict of settings, I don't know. I'll get someone to take a look at it, I don't want anybody else cracking their heads over this.

thanks Scott,
I will try to find what is wrong, fix it, and send a report asap.
 
If you have QT pro then you can change the quality settings. By default DV is low quality so it plays at real time.
Do a get info in QT player. Select video in popup. Select quality from the other popup.
Now turn on high quality and save the movie.
Sounds like it's looking fine except when playing back at full speed. Check this in the QT Player.
Make sure your canvase is expanded and at 100% size. If it is notthen you will have a lower quality image.
There are no fields if the pulldown removal was successful.
 
Scott,

Thanks! You rock.

That was it,
quicktime was not playing my file in high quality,
sounds simple but it scared the hell out of me.

All I had to do was:

open the file in Quicktime > Movie > Get Movie Properties > select from the drop-down menu on the left: Video Track > select from the drop-down menu on the right: Quality > check the High Quality Enabled box.

play it again and see the difference.

awesome,
thanks Scott.
 
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