24p or 24pa?

B

Bokes

Well-known member
New to the 100a. Here's my ?

Settings are the same for 24p and 24pa

24p gives a nice warm- almost soft filtered look to the image. It also hides minor lighting problems in a quick set-up. Works great for video projects and my clients love it.

I want to shoot some short creative spots which may need to go to film. My friend swears by 24pa and shoots everything in this file setting. He claims it gives the best overall image and is closer to the film look we are after. True?

I agree- 24pa- gives an overall cleaner, more natural image. But to my eye- it looks dull and a bit dark. It tends to lose that "magic glow" I seem to get so easy in 24p.

Anyone agree?

Shoot 24pa and filter in post?
Or save time and flip the switch on the set.
I realize it's my creative choice, but I would like to hear what other users are doing.
Thanks.
 
Re: 24p or 24pa?

The only difference between the two, is 24P inserts a 2:3 pulldown, and 24Pa inserts a 2:3:3:2 pulldown that can be more cleanly removed in post for editing on a 24P timeline.  The cadence looks slightly different and if you're not going to be editing on a 24 timeline, than 24P normal would be the best choice.   That's the only difference between the two settings.
 
Re: 24p or 24pa?

You have to make a distinction between scene file F5 and scene file F6, versus 24P and 24PA. The scene file settings are different and will yield different looks. Choosing a different pulldown cadence (24P vs. 24PA) will have no effect on the image other than the actual pulldown -- all other attributes (brightness, contrast, color, etc) are unrelated to the actual pulldown sequence being used.
 
Re: 24p or 24pa?

Barry Green has an excellent point. The F5 (24P normal) and F6 (24P advanced) scene files are slightly different. On the straight DVX100, the F5 has the Detail Level (sharpness) set to -4 as opposed to a setting of 0 for F6. The V Detail Freq is set to Thick for F5 and Thin for F6. So, I'd imagine these are the differences you're seeing. If you experiment with the Detail level and V Detail Freq settings, you should be able to get exactly what you want with either the 24P or 24Pa settings.
 
Re: 24p or 24pa?

... and on the 100A, the gamma settings are different as well. These settings differences could explain the different looks.
 
Re: 24p or 24pa?

Thanks folks for the info. I shot my first piece with 24P (F5) today, and now I'm ready to edit with Vegas 5.0.

I will look up the settings tonight, but my guess is that I need to choose 24p as the edit mode. Is that correct?

I also was curious if there is an effect on how the camera responds as to the focus with 24P? I noticed that the camera appears a bit jerky in the LCD screen as you shoot. And the manual warned me about that so that's cool, but is there something else going on with the focus - I mean is it focusing away but I just don't see it in the LCD? I finally just went manual and it was nice and sharp.

thanks for the help,
Milt Lee
Hollow Bone
 
Re: 24p or 24pa?

You can choose to edit your footage as 24P or as normal DV (60i). The choice is yours.

As for autofocus, it's much slower in 24P mode (as is the Canon XL2). The CCD runs slower in 24P mode, so updates happen more slowly. Autofocus isn't even called autofocus in the DVX when in 24P mode, it's called "focus assist" because it's too slow-responding to be called actual autofocus. It's not the camera's fault, it's the nature of shooting 24P -- only 24 updates per second, vs. 60 in interlaced mode, mean that the autofocus system doesn't get new information quick enough to respond quickly.
 
Re: 24p or 24pa?

[quote author=Milt Lee link=board=news;num=1102513432;start=0#7 date=12/08/04 at 21:09:49]Thanks folks for the info. I shot my first piece with 24P (F5) today, and now I'm ready to edit with Vegas 5.0.

I will look up the settings tonight, but my guess is that I need to choose 24p as the edit mode. Is that correct?

I also was curious if there is an effect on how the camera responds as to the focus with 24P? I noticed that the camera appears a bit jerky in the LCD screen as you shoot. And the manual warned me about that so that's cool, but is there something else going on with the focus - I mean is it focusing away but I just don't see it in the LCD? I finally just went manual and it was nice and sharp.

thanks for the help,
Milt Lee
Hollow Bone [/quote]


Hmmm. Correct me if I'm wrong, everbody, but I think that the way Vegas handles 24p you're better off using 24pA if this is your editing app of choice (and a fine, fine choice it is!)
The 2:3:3:2 pulldown translates better and can avoid a choppy look you may get with 24p. Also if you are using the + DVD, outputting an mpeg2 from the 24pA's 2:3:3:2 pulldown is cleaner.... Am I wrong on this?

Per another post here http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/support/productinfo/24p.pdf
 
Re: 24p or 24pa?

If you're editing in a 24P timeline, it doesn't make much of a hill of beans' difference whether you use 2:3 or 2:3:3:2. Vegas can handle both equally as well. But you'll get a slight bump in quality if you use 2:3:3:2 (otherwise called 24PA). 24PA is the preferred method for editing in a 24P timeline, 24P (2:3) is the preferred method when editing in a 60i timeline, but neither choice really locks you out of the other option.
 
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