airforceguy
Active member
I will be shooting my first feature this summer and wanted to know what are most of you shooting, 24P or 24PA? Why? What timeline are you editing on?
24P or 24PA for first feature
- Thread starter airforceguy
- Start date
Why are you considering 24p?
Shoot 24PA.
Less memory. Closest frame rate to film. More bandwidth for internet or DVD. Easier to transfer to film (unlikely but if it happens you're prepaired).
you didn't tell us what you are shooting on but.
DVX - shoot 24pA
HVX/HPX170/HPX500 720? - shoot 24pN
HVX/HPX170/HPX500 1080? - 24pA
24pA was invented for shooting movies.
Shoot 24PA.
Less memory. Closest frame rate to film. More bandwidth for internet or DVD. Easier to transfer to film (unlikely but if it happens you're prepaired).
you didn't tell us what you are shooting on but.
DVX - shoot 24pA
HVX/HPX170/HPX500 720? - shoot 24pN
HVX/HPX170/HPX500 1080? - 24pA
24pA was invented for shooting movies.
airforceguy
Active member
Thank you. I will be shooting it on a DVX 100B and editing it on FCPS2 (I am pretty new to both). What timeline/settings do you recommend?
23.98 timeline. Your pulldown happens in post.
to clarify - 24PA gives you a true 24 fps after pulldown (23.98) ... so that's the timeline you edit on. Everything's progressive. There is no interlacing at that point.
Just select the NTSC DV 23.98 preset for the timeline.
Unless you have a narrative reason to wind up 4:3 you'll want to wind up 16X9, so that means your timeline will be 23.98 ANAMORPHIC.
Now how do you shoot for widescreen with the DVX? That's up to you and there are myriad debates. My personal suggestion is to shoot 4:3 with guidlines taped on your LCD or monitor for 16X9, then upres your 4:3 to 16X9 in post. The reason - people argue and argue over which is better - shooting squeeze mode in camera or blowing up in your NLE in terms of image quality, which basically means it's probably too close of a difference, if any, to matter. But the benefit of shooting 4:3 for 16X9 is that you can refreame in post. You can slide the image up and down for perfect vertical framing / to add a faux crane or tilt move in post. Perhaps coolest of all. You can apply more aggressive stabilization in post. Since most shake is up/down not side to side, you'll have all of that image to play with without zooming in even further for stabilization. You're going to throw away the top and bottom of your image anyway. Might as well keep it while shooting and have that information to use in post rather than throw it away in camera and be locked into that in post. My 2¢.
to clarify - 24PA gives you a true 24 fps after pulldown (23.98) ... so that's the timeline you edit on. Everything's progressive. There is no interlacing at that point.
Just select the NTSC DV 23.98 preset for the timeline.
Unless you have a narrative reason to wind up 4:3 you'll want to wind up 16X9, so that means your timeline will be 23.98 ANAMORPHIC.
Now how do you shoot for widescreen with the DVX? That's up to you and there are myriad debates. My personal suggestion is to shoot 4:3 with guidlines taped on your LCD or monitor for 16X9, then upres your 4:3 to 16X9 in post. The reason - people argue and argue over which is better - shooting squeeze mode in camera or blowing up in your NLE in terms of image quality, which basically means it's probably too close of a difference, if any, to matter. But the benefit of shooting 4:3 for 16X9 is that you can refreame in post. You can slide the image up and down for perfect vertical framing / to add a faux crane or tilt move in post. Perhaps coolest of all. You can apply more aggressive stabilization in post. Since most shake is up/down not side to side, you'll have all of that image to play with without zooming in even further for stabilization. You're going to throw away the top and bottom of your image anyway. Might as well keep it while shooting and have that information to use in post rather than throw it away in camera and be locked into that in post. My 2¢.
CaptainMench
Carbonite Member
24pA mode on the DVX can be tricky. Some things to keep in mind:
1) Plan on shooting and leaving enough roll before and after your shot. FCP will need to 'find' the cadence. And you should plan on logging and capturing each clip you want.
2) Don't turn on and off the camera without stopping the record function first... or Rule 1
3) Don't preview the tape inbetween shots... or Rule 1
4) Don't trust the auto blank tape finder thingie... or Rule 1
5) I like to capture DV NTSC 2997 and remove cadence AFTER I've captured it from the TOOLS menu.... or, of course... Rule 1.
Keep those in mind and you won't have ANY issue with capturing 24pA stuff in FCP.
CaptM
1) Plan on shooting and leaving enough roll before and after your shot. FCP will need to 'find' the cadence. And you should plan on logging and capturing each clip you want.
2) Don't turn on and off the camera without stopping the record function first... or Rule 1
3) Don't preview the tape inbetween shots... or Rule 1
4) Don't trust the auto blank tape finder thingie... or Rule 1
5) I like to capture DV NTSC 2997 and remove cadence AFTER I've captured it from the TOOLS menu.... or, of course... Rule 1.
Keep those in mind and you won't have ANY issue with capturing 24pA stuff in FCP.
CaptM
airforceguy
Active member
I have been undecided between squeeze and 4:3 for quite some time now. I have heard great arguments for both. I have always liked the point you brought up, i.e. being able to reframe in post etc (because of my lack of skills), along with the idea of getting the most out of the chip.
How does this compare to squeeze when going to DVD? How about transferring to film (in a perfect world)?
How does this compare to squeeze when going to DVD? How about transferring to film (in a perfect world)?
Again, you can go round and round on that. You'll find just as many posts saying squeeze is cleaner/sharper as you will saying blow in FCP is.
Technically you are throwing away the same amount of image either way and zooming in on the middle. If you do it in camera and get wierd artifacts, you're stuck with them. In post you can try uprez in FCP, Compressor, instant HD, photozoom pro, etc.
So measurebators may ague squeeze vs blow up in post or vice versa for film blow up, but it's too close to tell once you factor in tack sharp focus vs slightly off etc. So again I say go with what gives you the most options in post. Neither choice will leave you screwed. What will lead you with difficulties is interlacing and wrong framerate. 24pA will take care of that. Squeeze or Post Uprez is a matter of prefernce/ and unproductive debate.
Of course shooting with the anamorphic adaptor is best, but harder and there goes your 35mm adaptor.
Technically you are throwing away the same amount of image either way and zooming in on the middle. If you do it in camera and get wierd artifacts, you're stuck with them. In post you can try uprez in FCP, Compressor, instant HD, photozoom pro, etc.
So measurebators may ague squeeze vs blow up in post or vice versa for film blow up, but it's too close to tell once you factor in tack sharp focus vs slightly off etc. So again I say go with what gives you the most options in post. Neither choice will leave you screwed. What will lead you with difficulties is interlacing and wrong framerate. 24pA will take care of that. Squeeze or Post Uprez is a matter of prefernce/ and unproductive debate.
Of course shooting with the anamorphic adaptor is best, but harder and there goes your 35mm adaptor.