23.976 vs. 29.97

Rick Meyer

Rick Meyer

Veteran
I'm not sure what I did...

I have 6 tapes of wedding footage. All captured in a 30fps (29.97) Widescreen project in Premiere 1.5. I rendered out a DVD and watched it on my TV (I couldn't notice this on the computer screen) but one of my chapters had very choppy movement. It was just not smooth. It wasnt jumpy...just choppy/stroby for a lack of a better term.

Well, I checked the footage properties and ALL of the tapes, except this one, showed a 29.97 frame rate. However, this chapter the footage was 23.976. So, thinking this was the problem (please correct me if I'm wrong) I decided to interpret the footage. It APPEARED to do the trick (again, its hard to tell on the computer screen) and smooth out the footage but two odd things happened...1) lost a LOT of my edits in the timeline. A lot of my shots were lost or missing. Perhaps this is because the shots were juxtaposed with 29.97 frame footage, the 23.97 was getting overlapped? and 2) my audio from the Interpreted footage became skewed. The bride sounded like a chipmunk. Why would interpreting footage do this?

I have no idea how I had my camera on 23.976fps on this tape to begin with. Now, I am finding that its tricky to find the easiest fix. I decided to recapture the tape within this project, but its still reading at 23.976fps.

Anyone know of a better way to either get the frame rate to where it needs to be (29.97) by Interpreting, or re-capturing or circling my desk chair 3 times and spitting? I'm all ears. Or, if you know what might be causing my strobing (if its NOT the frame rate thing) and can offer a solution, that would be great.

Thanks.
Rick
PS By the way I should mention, all of this footage is in real time. It is not slowed down at all.
 
yep

yep

Yep, when ever you put 29.97 footage in premiere's 23.976 timeline it always looks like that, but the only way you can fix it is remaking that section in a 29.97 timeline.
 
Rick are you able to open footage shot 24p, in a 29.97 timeline. When I was using 1.5 all my 24p footage showed up 23.976. And even after rendering the motion was jumpy.

In 2.0, it doesn't matter how I shot or captured, 24p will show up 23.976 in a 24p timeline, and 29.97 in a normal 60i timeline.

-Kevin
 
Hmm, thanks for the input guys. Well, I am glad to know that I am right about what the problem is. How I shot 24p on THAT tape and not the rest is a mystery...

Mattmatheson....how do I distinguish the framerate of the timeline? Do I have to open up a completely brand new project, edit that chapter, render it out as an AVI file then bring it into my 29.97 project? If thats the case, then I am in for some trouble. This chapter is intertwined with cameraB which is 29.97. Huh?

Sacksnack...yes, I was able to bring it in no problem. But when I INTERPRET it...the audio speeds up. I understand why it would, I am just surprised its doing that.

Any other ideas guys?

IF I BROUGHT THE 29.97 FOOTAGE INTO A 23.97 PROJECT TO EDIT THAT ONE SEQUENCE TOGETHER, WOULD I THEN HAVE THE SAME JITTY FOOTAGE PROBLEM WITH THE 29.97 FOOTAGE???
 
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Sacksnack...yes, I was able to bring it in no problem. But when I INTERPRET it...the audio speeds up. I understand why it would, I am just surprised its doing that.
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There's a problem right there, you shouldn't have to interpret anything. I'm still thinking this is the "bug" that Premiere 1.5 has. All footage shot with the DVX, is recorded to tape at 29.97, regardless of the scene settings. So that means 24p, 30p, and 60i. You should be able to open this no problem in a 29.97 timeline, and the file should read 29.97. The Problem is that Premiere is removing the pulldown, and you don't want that. You want to leave the pulldown intact so you have your file at 29.97. I mix 60i, 30p, and 24p all the time in a 29.97 timeline. Nothing needs to be interpreted, nothing altered.

I think you could take all the 24p clips you're using in the timeline, open them in a 23.976 project, then render out a file (Microsoft DV?) with the pulldown intact. Then re-import that file into your 29.97 project timeline. Then re-cut the clips into your project. You will lose some quality, but not too much.

You could also download the demo for Premiere 2.0, which doesn't have any of these problems. Open your project in there.
IF I BROUGHT THE 29.97 FOOTAGE INTO A 23.97 PROJECT TO EDIT THAT ONE SEQUENCE TOGETHER, WOULD I THEN HAVE THE SAME JITTY FOOTAGE PROBLEM WITH THE 29.97 FOOTAGE???
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You can't open 60i footage in a 23.976 timeline, it won't play correctly. PM me if you're having trouble getting a hold of a 2.0 demo version.
-Kevin
 
Thanks again for the input. I will look for that DEMO to see what that is all about. This is annoying because this Video is done. Its just stalled because I happened to notice this F-ed up chapter with stuttery motion. Not good.

Well, assuming the tape is in fact 23.97 footage (since thats how it is being captured into this 29.97 project) I was thinking I could follow your advice and export the entire tape (not too bad, only 25 minutes). Bring it back into Premiere and recut that tape with the other tape for this one chapter.

I will check to see if that works. Because that chipmunk audio after I do the INTERPRET method is just insane...

Thanks again...

Believe me...I have been checking this thread 3 times an hour. So, I will definitely be back.especially to share any success/learned experiences...
So, thanks again..
Rick

EDIT: NOT TO BE PESSIMISTIC, BUT IT JUST OCCURRED TO ME THAT THE ENTIRE PROJECT WAS RENDERED OUT AS A 29.97 PROJECT TO DVD. SO, IN EFFECT, I'VE ALREADY EXPORTED THIS 23.97 FOOTAGE AS 29.97 FOOTAGE WITH THE STROBEY EFFECT. THOUGH, PERHAPS EXPORTING IT THIS WAY AND BRINGING IT BACK IN MIGHT YIELD DIFFERENT RESULTS? Just in case...keep the ideas coming ladies and gents...
 
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After further review, exporting using Microsoft DV is no good because that codec still flags the footage to be 23.976.
I'm leaning towards PP 2.0 being the best and only option. You can install multiple versions of Premiere on a computer. So it's worth a shot. I would save your project again, but give it a new name, like 2.0 test, then open that in 2.0. Just in case you don't like the results.
-Kevin
 
Hey Rick,

Is this the same project that you have been working on for a long time?

Any way, just keep the section that you have at a 23.976 (preserving the speed and your edits) then export just that section as a movie (save as a DV avi) and use the 2:3:3:2 pull up option. Then just import the newly created avi as a replacement clip keeping the 29.97 fps rate. This imported footage can be dropped back into your time line and should play back fine (though it will have different motion characteristics due to the way that it was shot).

Good Luck!
 
khmuse is right about the 2:3:3:2 option. I knew there had to be a work around for that bug. Nice job. Like I said 2.0 doesn't have this problem. Makes things a lot easier. Good Luck.
-Kevin
 
Thanks to you both for this. Khmuse...actually, no. This is a new one. Ha. It seems like it though. They get easier all the time, but I can't seem to have a trouble-free edit.

In the future, I will definitely use your fix. As for now, Sack, I went ahead and downloaded the trial version of 2.0 (So far I dig it. I might have to upgrade). And it gave me the 24pulldown option. That seems to have smoothed it all out. I will know more when I can see it on a big tv but for now, looks good.

So, thanks guys!
Rick
 
Hey Rick,

Glad to hear that this is a new project! As for PPro 2.0 it is a great upgrade and I would highly recommend going for it.
 
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