20-30k Commercial/Music Video lighting setup???

M

madeprime

Member
As bad as I want a Red Scarlet-W set up, but since I'm now shooting raw internally 4k 60fps with the c200 for now, I'm considering spending that 25k on led lighting and grip. I shoot music videos and commercial/branded content and want to dig deeper into it. I'm looking for an all-led kit that requires very little crew and power to operate as a lot of what I'm shooting is high volume but low budget. So right now I'm looking at Skypanels, L10-C, Kino Flo selects, Quasar Science, Hive 100-c, Litepanel Astras, litemats, DS1/DS3, ect. I Really like the idea of using RBG looking on these units but I also need atlas 1 light that just as bright as a 2k or way more so I have my bases covered for liking an entire set. Being able to rent out the high end lighting like the Arri or kino is a plus. Any advice on a light kit from 20k-30k?
 
You might have opened up a big can of worms here madeprime!

I would buy 2x Arri S-60 skypanels. At least here in Australia, they're the most sought after light for commercial productions small and large. Depending on the market, you may be able to rent them out very frequently.

Unless you're getting a mega discount for buying everything at once, I'd buy the skypanels first and add more as needed (you'll know pretty quickly!). Your budget comes from redirecting funds for a camera package into lighting equipment, rather than for a particular project. You may not need to spend the full $20-$30k.

What happened to the Digital Sputnik Voyagers? It'd be handy to have about 10 of those.

Where are you located? With the grip gear I recommend buying used. With the grip gear, even with "very little crew" a basic starting point would be something like:

-stands
-4x4 frames
-4x4 floppies
-6x6 and/or 8x8 frames with:
-1/4 silent grid
-1/2 silent grid
-ultra bounce
-solid black
 
Thanks for the reply Rob Norton, I agree with the Arri's, any reason you wouldn't get the 120-c's??? I'm assuming they would be worth it to have the larger surface for soft lighting. The voyagers look awesome and I'm sure I'll get them when they're widely available. Mind you, the lowlight on the c200 is probably even a step above the c300ii so I don't believe I need a a crazy amount of lights I just want to be able to attack 99% of small budgets without renting out. Thanks for the Grip list it looks super solid to start. I wonder if that breaks down into a large suv with the seats down easily?
 
I think they're as bright as each other but the S60s are pretty big and heavy. So the extra weight (although not actually that much more) but more importantly length, put the S120 as too big in my books. I'm not sure what's best for your needs though. The S-60s might be more appealing to renters for their smaller footprint..

The 4x4 frames are the biggest problem. I'm assuming your SUV won't have the height for them. There are 42 inch versions you could get but they may not fit either. You can get a softbox/grid for the S-60s that makes it a 3x4 source, so you may not need the dedicated 4x4 frames and can use 6x6/8x8s as needed, which can easily be packed for transport.
 
I've used skypanels a few times. Nice lights but whenever i needed it moved i asked a G&E guy to do it (notice they come with heavy-duty pin as standard which means they require heavier combi stands). Bottom line is that i don't use skypanels that often anymore because i don't believe they give me tons of bang of the weight and money.
 
That's a nice budget!

I'd simply say that it might be good to have at least one Tungsten 1K fresnel unit, as well as a big hard light. I'd recommend a Hive Wasp 1K. Great output and light quality, can be effective outdoors through diffusion, and can be your big sunlight through windows.

Here is what I'd think about if I were you, considering your preference for LED and minimal crew.
-Hive 1K (plasma) runs off of house power, drawing 8amps. Hard source, very powerful
-Tungsten 1K (with barn doors) for when you need the full spectrum, and/or hard light. Still bright enough to be softened for keys, and not very heavy.
-Skypanel (with softbox and egg crate). I know it's heavy, so you decide if you're comfortable with it. But still one of the brightest soft LEDs with the most versatility.
-LED Source 4 V.2 (with gobos) will be a great way to throw hard shapes at various colors, and can use gobos.
-Litemats (when they come out with the RGB versions) for smaller spaces, cars and can even be taped to walls.
-2 or 4 Voyager tubes. These have incredible functionality for faking car driving, using in the shot, or other effects.

This would only leave you with about $5k for grip, which is not a lot. I'd be looking for:
-2x Steel combo stands
-2x aluminum combo stands
-2x mathew junior boom arms
-6x C-stands (maybe 8, but since you don't have a lot of crew, you'll likely not be setting up your entire kit at once
-2x 8x8 frame (can be used indoors) for larger bounces, diffusions or negs
-8x8 rag kit at least with various grid cloths, and ultrabounce/neg
-4x 4x4 floppies (can open up to 4x8, which makes them very useful
-2x 4x4 open frame (which you can skin to be diffusion, or switch it up depending on the job
-2x 2x4 flags (maybe 4, depending on your style)
-Various clamps (mafers, cartelini, etc...)
-Some apple boxes
-Make your own stingers easily

You'll likely go slightly over budget with this, and you don't even have carts for transporting. You'll want a stand cart, a cart for lights, and a taco cart...which can easily be another US$5K

This is a very subjective first suggestion, based on my own working style. You may have different needs,
 
I going to go against the grain and ask if you are going into the electrical business? Are you a gaffer? Do you want to become a gaffer or are you a DP? Perhaps I am getting spoiled, I had a nice 6 person grip and gaffer crew in Brazil in the Spring on a documentary, I just found a source here on DVX User who has a very nice Ford 350 van that is loaded with most grip and lighting I would ever need unless it was a big project. I am leaving for a project in Atlanta in a couple of weeks and we are hiring a five ton G&L truck and crew and shooting on a nice bult set for an existing TV show. Since I have been in the business for quite a while, I have made the full circle with grip and lighting, I own a three ton grip package and have about 15-20 smaller cheaper lights than you are considering. But I find gaffing is a different job than DPing and I much prefer to hire good gaffers than to try and do everything by myself, unlike the late 90s and early 2000s where I was doing so many projects, one on top of the other, that all of my stuff paid for itself in about 3 months. Video and cinema are collaborative endeavors, I just find it best to, on a small or larger scale production, hire people who are better at their jobs than I am, own all of the right toys, maintain them and know how to use them.

I write, produce and DP. So I may be downsizing and more often hiring people who have a proper grip/electrical truck rather than me packing my Chevy 2500 Silverado to the gills and still not having room for 4x4s, flag boxes, speed rail, etc. I can pack a lot of crap onto my truck but not nearly as much as a small cube van. But I don't want to buy a cube van. So I can never bring everything like a proper electrician and or grip would when they have the right vehicle. But back to lighting. I guess the bottom line is, do you want to be a gaffer? If you don't, I wouldnt drop $30k on lighting, I think you are not spending your money wisely, unless you have a business plan and this all penciled out on how it will go into profit for you in less than 12 months? That's about how long current LED tech is still current, it's moving incredibly fast and people are lemmings and mainly want to rent the flavor of the month. BTW, I have used a whole truck full of Skypanels, they have a green bias but generally look nice but IMHO are overpriced (what says Arri on it that isn't expensive?), there are better choices that are better lights for less. But Arri is a name that carries some commercial value so maybe you can get the rentals for them and the charges for your own projects, what do I know? I am just raising normal business concerns. Just my .02, maybe you have a complete plan that I don't understand. But IMHO, when you are spending that kind of money, you should be doing that job position for a living. It's no different than a gaffer buying a RED. Why? I know a few gaffers who have dabbled in cameras and renting their cameras but that's high risk these days because cameras are SOOO flavor of the month.

If you aren't gaffing for a living and don't have everything DPs want and need in one easy to hire and use package, forget it. When I, as a producer, hire a grip or lighting truck, the only extra I want to be told about is if we need a big genny. I won't hire a guy with "some cool Arri lights". I expect them to have it all or to be able to get it all, I don't want to hire three guys to make it happen, I want one point of contact and it's all transparent to me. At $30k, you are neither here nor there as a pro package. Most small grip or electrical trucks probably have closer to $150k to $250k packages if you add up every gizmo, gadget, light, cable, lighting accessory, etc. You need a LOT more than just lights or even lighting kits. But maybe I am off base here but $30k sends up a "does this guy have a viable business plan?" flag.
 
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I think Pure has a lot of value in his comments.

Why do you want $25g of kit devaluing, clugging your garage, pissing off your wife, needing insuring maintaining and struggling to have to get a ROI on it.

It is indeed a half house.. its not a grip offer and it is probably a lot to 'carry' on a self shooting business.

--

If you must kit up.. then Im a bit lost here

Arri M18 or the biggest Hive. Two of those and your money is gone.

I guess if forced to the shop with that money Id get..

Arri M18
Lots of the regular 1.1 panels and stuff
4.4s and grip arms and Cstands

Im far from convinced that Skypanels represent a good investment or are happy on a small set.

Yes they are super sexy for when you want some colours or a changing shot.. but how many shoots need that.

Actually Id probably try a Hive Wasp 1000 over the M18 for small crew stuff?
 
I have my Sprinter van package I would make you a deal on. It would be pretty much everything you would need in one self contained ready to roll kit. I could configure it to fit your budget, and only include the items you need. Having worked out of SUV's and the like over the years, it would be hard for me to go back to something like that after working out of the Sprinter. Which in my opinion is the perfect owner operator vehicle. I would also entertain a trade for a Porsche 911TT.

All the best!

Dave
 
puredrifting said:
I going to go against the grain and ask if you are going into the electrical business? Are you a gaffer? Do you want to become a gaffer or are you a DP? Perhaps I am getting spoiled, I had a nice 6 person grip and gaffer crew in Brazil in the Spring on a documentary, I just found a source here on DVX User who has a very nice Ford 350 van that is loaded with most grip and lighting I would ever need unless it was a big project. I am leaving for a project in Atlanta in a couple of weeks and we are hiring a five ton G&L truck and crew and shooting on a nice bult set for an existing TV show. Since I have been in the business for quite a while, I have made the full circle with grip and lighting, I own a three ton grip package and have about 15-20 smaller cheaper lights than you are considering. But I find gaffing is a different job than DPing and I much prefer to hire good gaffers than to try and do everything by myself, unlike the late 90s and early 2000s where I was doing so many projects, one on top of the other, that all of my stuff paid for itself in about 3 months. Video and cinema are collaborative endeavors, I just find it best to, on a small or larger scale production, hire people who are better at their jobs than I am, own all of the right toys, maintain them and know how to use them.

I write, produce and DP. So I may be downsizing and more often hiring people who have a proper grip/electrical truck rather than me packing my Chevy 2500 Silverado to the gills and still not having room for 4x4s, flag boxes, speed rail, etc. I can pack a lot of crap onto my truck but not nearly as much as a small cube van. But I don't want to buy a cube van. So I can never bring everything like a proper electrician and or grip would when they have the right vehicle. But back to lighting. I guess the bottom line is, do you want to be a gaffer? If you don't, I wouldnt drop $30k on lighting, I think you are not spending your money wisely, unless you have a business plan and this all penciled out on how it will go into profit for you in less than 12 months? That's about how long current LED tech is still current, it's moving incredibly fast and people are lemmings and mainly want to rent the flavor of the month. BTW, I have used a whole truck full of Skypanels, they have a green bias but generally look nice but IMHO are overpriced (what says Arri on it that isn't expensive?), there are better choices that are better lights for less. But Arri is a name that carries some commercial value so maybe you can get the rentals for them and the charges for your own projects, what do I know? I am just raising normal business concerns. Just my .02, maybe you have a complete plan that I don't understand. But IMHO, when you are spending that kind of money, you should be doing that job position for a living. It's no different than a gaffer buying a RED. Why? I know a few gaffers who have dabbled in cameras and renting their cameras but that's high risk these days because cameras are SOOO flavor of the month.

If you aren't gaffing for a living and don't have everything DPs want and need in one easy to hire and use package, forget it. When I, as a producer, hire a grip or lighting truck, the only extra I want to be told about is if we need a big genny. I won't hire a guy with "some cool Arri lights". I expect them to have it all or to be able to get it all, I don't want to hire three guys to make it happen, I want one point of contact and it's all transparent to me. At $30k, you are neither here nor there as a pro package. Most small grip or electrical trucks probably have closer to $150k to $250k packages if you add up every gizmo, gadget, light, cable, lighting accessory, etc. You need a LOT more than just lights or even lighting kits. But maybe I am off base here but $30k sends up a "does this guy have a viable business plan?" flag.
Click to expand...

Good point here.

My initial suggested package assumes you'll be using at least a sprinter van, and also assumes you'll be working as a production company. I do think there are ways to make it work where you Produce, DP, and hire a skilled gaffer to to bring in on the jobs you produce, so you save money on rentals, if your projects often call for that. But indeed it is a big investment if you were looking to be just a DP. At this point you'd be owner of a production company.

But I'm also assuming you've given it a lot of thought and this is a natural progression in a progressing career so far.
 
I like SkyPanels but the typical 3rd Party transport case is pretty large, & the smaller versions will not hold all the accessories. A Gaffer friend bought the slightly smaller cases, which are still bigger than the OEM, & regrets not getting the largest.

Like PureDrifting I question whether you want to run a rental company. It can be a way to pay for the better toys, but is it a buisness you really want to run, or are your primary interests elsewhere? Perhaps you live where there isn't many viable rental options so you need to own, but my philosophy has been to own a minimalist package that can handle small gigs, & hire G&E, plus Crew, as needed. My emphasis has always been to own compact lighter weight kit (that's typically not readily available for rent) which can easily be handled by a small crew, & be packed into SUVs/Vans, or the cargo hold of a airline.

If you do decide to start a rental company I'm not sure I'd choose a Hive 1000W, or a M18. I'm intrigued by the Hive, but have yet to see one on set, whereas M18s are everywhere. Perhaps the uniqueness of the Hive would give you an advantage over your competition, but initially it may not get that many requests.
 
M18 and Hive.

I suggested the latter as what I would personally go for (as an owner op) M18 pulls more, and is heavier and eats more budget.

As a rental item I guess the Arri is requested more

(I have not used either fixture but Dr Papert likes the Arri I think vs 2.5 HMI fresnels)

S
 
For sure Arri M18 will rent better. But it seems like the OP is mostly looking to use it himself, not sure if renting out is part of his desired model. Although it's always a perk, I suppose. But the Hive 1K is super low draw, can even run off of a Gold Zero battery generator...which is awesome for exteriors since it doesn't affect sound quality like a gas generator will. Plus, M18s require very careful maneuvering with house circuits.
 
When running off house power in the North America I often order 1200W globes for the M18 to avoid tripping a breaker, but still rarely run anything else on that circuit.
 
Hey rob you were right! Big can of worms. But I'm glad that I did. All of the grip equipment you listed is spot on. As for the, "Buy a light, use it and build from there..." approach, I think that's the only sensible way. I HATED PUREDRIFTING'S RESPONSE. But he's right. (And smart and far more experienced Thant myself) I love telling stories but I also don't have anywhere near the team it takes to use half of this equipment without taking 45 minutes for a 7 minutes setup. I would end up being the guy who takes forever doing things he's half good at instead of the great director who hires out the best crew possible for each team. Don't get me wrong, I MUST purchase small kit that I could operate with a 2 man crew. This is how I live. But Puredrifitng is right. I'd be busting off far more than I could chew and still nowhere near enough to get the job done. (You can but the gear but you're paying double to hire out people who would know how to use it.) That being say I live in Houston and owning your own small camera and lighting package here is key to getting hired. So I guess some quasars is kino shells ($5k), and _______, _______, could be all I need for low budget commercials, music videos (90% of my income), and interviews/docs.
 
Yeah I def don't want to run a rental house. Nope. I probably wouldn't even want to rent my personal gear after reading you responses. You're right smaller, lighter setup is best. Any recommendations for small and versatile setups for music videos? DS1? Hive 100-C?
 
Yeah it's 99% for my use. is the Goal Zero battery generator the best electric generator out there? I'm so glad you show me this. Seems worth every penny.
 
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