2 HMC150 and dvx100b wedding advice

F

firehawk

Veteran
Hi everyone

About to shoot a wedding ceremony & reception using 2 hmc150s and a dvx100b (and an hck10.)
The reception will be using the hmcs and Dvx.
I have never mixed those cameras before and am thinking of shooting 30p.
I typically would shoot 720 60p and not use the Dvx but this time I need it for guest interviews.
The end product is DVD.

The reasons I'm not wanting 720 60p this time are:
The Dvx can't do 60p.
My main workstation is out of commission which means it will likely have to be edited on my old system and it can't do 60p. It gives an error. But it can cut 30p and I also have a transcoder that can downconvert 1080 30p if needed to SD dv if needed as a last resort, but not 720.

My concern with 30 p is dancing and low light. I've done some testing but never shot a wedding yet 30p. I plan on using on camera led lighting for the reception.

Lastly, is " SD norm" the best scene file to set the hd cameras to try to get close to the dvx100b?

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Hi Firehawk

Do you really need to used 4 cameras??? I use 3 at the ceremony (2 x HMC's and a GoPro) then 2 at the reception during speeches and for the rest just one camera. It will probably be a lot better if you didn't mix HD and SD. Are you going to mix the content as well?? (like HD and SD on the same timeline??) For safety sake I shoot all my weddings interlaced and have no problem with the downsizing for DVD ouput. However 30P shouldn't have any motion blur at a wedding as people don't really move that quickly!! We here are PAL so we only have 25P and 5 fps slower is too slow for stuff like dancing.

Chris
 
Hi Chris, and thank you.

The situation is this:
It's a 2 camera wedding.
It's a 3 camera reception. 1 camera is for interviews.

My normal camera guys are not available so I'm having to use backups.

What I am thinking is shoot the ceremony with my 3 hd cameras. 2hmc150 and use the POV hck10 as a high wide safety camera.

But I don't see how I can use the hck10 for the reception because no one there is familiar with pole cam shooting and hand holding the little thing would look quite ackward. There is supposed to be 2 cameras covering the reception while 1 gets interviews so I figured the best thing to do was use a Dvx as the imterview camera.

I've never shot interlaced with the hd cameras and ammworried about interlaced issues since hd is upper field first and the final DVD will be NTSC lower field.

My main workstation has been down due to a graphic card failure for several weeks on backorder. Thanks to you, Chris, for helping me earlier get my old machine ready as a backup because I've been having to transcode footage and use it or I would have been in deep trouble. My main machine may or may not be up soon so I have to plan on not having it, which means I can't cut 60p on the old machine, but I can transcode and edit 30p. Or shoot 1080 and downconvert to SD and them edit.
I'm so tired from the 120hr weeks I may not be thinking clearly so any further advice is appreciated.
 
Hi Firehawk

If it help you any, this is my wedding workflow. I have two HMC82's ..My A-Cam has a Rode mic and then two wireless receivers and I can switch between the two wireless receivers and my Rode. My B-Cam has a Rode plus a single receiver..both are shoulder mount and both can be tripod based too. My C-Cam is a GoPro Hero 2 usually on a light stand about 8' up in the air. Remember I work solo too!!!

Bridal Prep Shoots : B-Cam only handheld for both bride and groom preparations

Ceremony : A-Cam on right side of the aisle on a tripod and groom and lectern (for readings) is miced back to the two receivers. C-Cam is just behind me and runs the entire ceremony .. I use the B-Cam for the limo arrival and bridal party entrance and the A and C-Cams just run unattended ...I use the B-cam on my shoulder to get Daddy handing over his daughter and then shoot cutaways of the guests, The A-cam is a tight shot of the couple and officiant/priest only so the B-Cam also shoots semi-wide shoot of the bridal party during the ceremony too.

Congratulations : I shut down the A and C cams and just use the B-Cam to film the congratulations.

Photoshoot : I do a photoshoot after the formal photos but before the photog takes the couple away..either at the ceremony venue or a venue chosen by the bride and photog...I just film the couple only using the B-Cam on stedicam and that takes me around 15 minutes of shooting. I then leave the couple with the photog and go to the reception venue and relax a bit.

Pre-dinner drinks : When the guests come in I do handheld interviews during pre-dinner drinks ..mine is called a video guestbook where the segments can be anything fron 20 seconds to two minutes..I only use my B-cam for this

Bridal Entrance : My A-Cam is now setup so I can film the MC/DJ announcing the bridal party arriving and I use the B-Cam to actually film them coming in. Once they are seated I kill the A-Cam and use just the B-Cam to go around the tables so guests can talk, wave or just smile as I do table by table.

Speeches : I have the A-Cam locked on the speaker usually at a lectern or if not I specify a fixed position for them to stand and use a wireless lav on a mic stand or a boundary mic on a table. The B-Cam is handheld and I shoot cutways during the speech so when the groom thanks Auntie Joan for making the cake, I can zap 10 seconds of her with the B-Cam.

First Dance/Cake cutting/Dancing and the rest : Just my B-Cam on my shoulder to handle all the rest of the events, At this stage the A-Cam and tripod is put away as well as the CFL lighting for the speeches and I just one the B-Cam with a 6 PowerLED light on top.

That's the way I do it and it works for me as a solo shooter

Chris
 
Hi Chris,

That was real nice of you to type all that up. I know that took some time.
Looks like you have a good workflow figured out to deliver an impressive multicamera product from just one man.
I'm going to read over that a couple more times.

Thankfully My replacement graphics card just came in so hopefully I can get main workstation back up again.
That being the case, will 60p be significantly better than shooting 30p as far as autofocus and motion during dark ceremony and DJ reception lighting?
 
Hi Firehawk

As shocking as it sounds I shoot in 50i ..never had any issues either..I just deinterlace in my NLE and downsize to SD ...Our brides seem to all have giant 50" TV's but only a DVD player!! I tried shooting in 25P (as we are PAL here) but I do get some motion blur which isn't nice ...I used to shoot my stedicam work in 720 50P for better slomo but also saw little increase in performance. Progressive technically is way better than interlaced but I have yet to see any difference in a finished product, whether it's HD or SD. My 50i interlaced is sharp as a tack and I have never had a bride complain to me so i stick with that. I did find (unknown reason on the HMC80) that 720 50P gave me weird pixellation on peoples cheek bones (I have no idea why!) so I stick with 50i and it seems to keep me out of trouble. My cams sadly don't have a double frame rate in 1080 so that might be better. I have been told that 720 does a better downconvert to SD but I have also yet to see any difference.
Guess you will have to get some advice from other 150 owners as to the best progressive format?

My workflow suits me fine and seems to have worked over many years and if I can make the workflow easier on myself then why not...2nd shooters here seem scarce so I only use one if I have the guys and girls getting ready at the same time but at different locations so it's geared for a single operator...How many of you are shooting this wedding??

Chris
 
I'm afraid to try shooting interlaced on this one since there's no time to test. There will be three shooters on this wedding.
One has helped me on a couple weddings before. The other has not.

I know I don't want to do 24p on this one for what you just said.
Do you have Much post work required to match your hmc82s and gopro hero2?

I'm going to buy a hero3 as soon as I can. It looks promising on paper and convenient for an extra angle.

I can easily see why the ac130s you had couldn't cut it doing as extensive one man operation as you do.
I have done several weddings by myself with multiple cameras but I never attempted a reception using more than one camera by myself.
Plus it's hard to watch the gear by yourself for fear of theft.
You are a knowledgable, capable and helpful guy.
 
Hey Firehawk

Thanks..like you we will both be learning for a long time...forums like this help a lot!!
The Hero footage in 25P MP4 seems to match my HMC82 footage absolutely perfectly!! No post work at all except kill the audio track once I have synced the footage ...I have it mainly for high and wide shots and sometimes I might use only a few seconds and sometimes quite a lot...It's really useful in a Church when the brides mother sticks her ample butt into your lens hood or when the photog ducks down below your fixed camera and forgets she/he has a flash sticking up in the air. Then the GoPro footage comes into play cos no-one can block a camera 8' in the air. At Church weddings I also find it useful to include footage of the readers walking from their seats to the lectern and back again which a normal cam would miss. Essentially cos it's running from start to finish it's a really good backup if you miss a shot or someone blocks it!! I would shoot with the 150's in 30P for a wedding and then shoot with your backup POV also in 30P .... I'm actually wondering if you really need the DVX at all??? You will have 3 cams on the ceremony..do you really need four??? You also have the issue of matching both the SD DVX footage and the HD 150 footage .... What will you do here?? Render the HMC150 footage to SD and then add the DVX footage ...if you try to upconvert the DVX SD footage it will look a bit rough I'm thinking.

I would really leave the DVX100 behind and just use the 2 HMC150's and the POV camera ..That will give you more than enough coverage...you can probably ditch your third shooter too or use him as a roadie ??? Are both being paid for this shoot..if so you might have to keep your other guy and use him for odd jobs.

Chris
 
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