1st ever DVXuser 3D Short Film collaboration?

how about a webcam, cuz thats about as much as my budget allows !!
Click to expand...
I feel your pain :)


Hmm yea, the key is using a camera that shoots progressive...much easier to clean up/key out or so I hear. I would really love to get the DVX, but right now my 3d animation plans are probably further along, so I'll be spending my money on mic equipment and stuff for my voice actors. Currently using 3dsmax and some experience with maya (can't do any kind of really complex rigging like I can in max).
 
I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with here, as I've been planning to shoot a film set in ancient Bible times, but can't afford to stage a production in the middle east.

So I've been planning to shoot half sets (background = green screen, foreground = actual constructed set pieces, such as tables, pots, etc) and then have the GS background replaced with the actual ancient times locations (both interior and exterior).

My biggest concern at this point is how realistic will that look?
 
Larry R said:
...
My biggest concern at this point is how realistic will that look?
Click to expand...

It depends on the talent. I'm sure you've seen The Ore. They did the exact same thing and it looks totally believable. They also used Cinema4D and some compositing software as well as motion tracking. All standard software that the people around here are using.
They explain alot of it on the DVD.
 
Hey Raptor, any ideas for a collaboration?, how about making a fake trailer for an action movie? so basicially we can have super short dramactic shots, with the usual voice over and pro-mo stuff, but made to look like it could be real trailer for a real movie?

Whadya think?
 
To follow up on my post above...how feasible would it be to make a CG location look as realistic as the attached images here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=742484&postcount=1


That is the exact type of location I'll be looking to re-create. Of course, I plan to do half sets, so I guess in this case I'd have to build rough stairs and then comp in the rest of the location. Assuming I do it that way, can the basic stairs be re-imagined in the computer to look like the location as in this image?

Just trying to see if my plan is anywhere near feasible, and it seems to fit in with the discussion of what you guys want to do. :)

Thanks,
Larry
 
Anhar, I don't have any ideas as of yet. I do have a ton of stuff to learn yet though so I have alot on my plate that way. I want to get into writing plug-ins and exploring using c++ with C4D which it handles. That would give me alot of creative freedom. Then there's Thinking Particles and mograph which I should spend a couple weeks on. Man there is a million things to do.

/Oh, heres the official Ore site. You can still view the entire short there. Click on 'Watch the Movie'.
www.TheOre.net


I'm going to have a look at Larry's link in a moment. Maybe there's something in that.

//Oh yeah I remember that one. It would be tricky. Having some digital stills of the area that was to be used in the shots would really help. They could be used to help texture the backgrounds.
I would not want to do an entire short that way though. Alot of care would have to go into the lighting of the characters. If the camera is panning then you'll need motion targets placed in the scene foreground and background with the green screen. Some objects already in the scene can act as targets also. Minimal blurring of the characters would be needed because of the chroma keying ofcourse.

The stairs and everthing can be done. But like I said I would want some digital stills (hi-res) of the area.
I'm not that good of an artist to fake the textures. I think that was shot in India? Maybe some DVXusers in a country of the look you want could take some stills. I'd be willing to at least do one scene and see how that goes. Any person in the shot would do.
 
Last edited:
Well, Larry the first shot, is kinda possible, , the second shot is really worth doing as a matt painting, with some of the close up elements as CG, remember it doesn't ALL have to be CG only when its needed.

Also if you want to see how "real" you can get with CG take a look at this:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthr...showthread.php?f=154&t=423634&highlight=ruins

See the video, it will make your jaw drop.

After watching it a millions times over, I think now at my current level I can get very close to his animation, but I think I can do it at a fraction of the effort he took, I think he used vray at way too high settings for animations, he said that ecah frame took hours or something, but I think I could replicate the end result using scanline and a few tricks and tips I've picked up from experimentations of my own.

I've found that for animations settings can be really low, because things are moving its a different ball game, different methods are needed, in fact motion and textures become more important, if it moves realistically and the colours look real your more than half way there.

Ones of those "Tricks" is to use photo textures, yep sounds like common sense, but if you want photoreal, then well use photos !! :), even with the crapest render, just by using a phototexure (used wisely and correctly) you could easly achieve what that guy did, (of course he modelled some good geometery, and mostly made his own textures FROM photos natually).

Anhar
 
Ok, ok, so I've done some tests, using real camera motion data and applied to a 3d set with very minimal lights, no advanced render settings at all, no GI, no motion blur just the crappest render settings available.

SADLY because of the crappy youtube compression all the quality has been destroyed, but rest assured I've rendered this at DVD quality and played back both on my PC and TV, looks real, I've asked others to take a look and they concured.

And the best part the render per frame was only 2 seconds, thats very fast (in terms of CG rendering) and this was with complex 3D geometery.

Screen grab:
Screen_capture_Atrium.jpg


Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU0dcFtolJQ

Shame about the compression otherwise you could have judged for yourself.

Anhar
 
Last edited:
Looks good Anhar.

If I would do anything I'd add more little subtle lights to get more shadows to accent certain areas. The foreground ledge for example has constant lighting.

The foreground beam looks very smooth which is fine if it's metal. If it's rock maybe some noise apllied to the texture with some bump mapping would help.

I'm only saying that because some of the best CG artwork I've seen used many many lights in the scene to get the shadows and accents. I think that is the key.

Also maybe have a look at the 'Normal Bump Mapping' tutorial in 3dsmax. (I have 8 but it might be in 7 also.) Under Film and TV effects. It's a technique I have not used yet but will be.

Here's the description taken from the tut:

Normal Bump Mapping refers to a new technique for simulating high-resolution surface detail on low-resolution polygonal models. Normal Bump Mapping is similar in some respects to regular bump mapping, but it conveys more complex surface detail than is possible in regular bump mapping. Normal bump maps store information on the direction normal of the surface in addition to the simple depth information used in regular bump mapping.
 
Last edited:
Dude I know, this was too prove that even without GI, even without decent lighting, even without proper textures (there was some texture problems) the result is still very realistic,

You did realise the render per frame was under 2 seconds THATS blazing fast!

The point of the video was to show that what is possible using the least effort and least render settings,

NOW imagine if I use GI (or even faked GI) better textures, much more complex geometery and shaders.

I'm aware of normal mapping but I not worried about using high polygons, infact I've found that when modelling things like sets and building, high polygons are not needed as much, unless you had some very complex close up surface deatil or furnishing that had to be modelled.

and also I have a script that automatically places hundreds of spot lights to create fake GI, but renders in a fraction of the time, for example if I applied GI to that video the render time would shoot upto 15 to 20 seconds per frame.

Don't take this as final work or anything these are tests, man I always make hundreds of different tests, its the only way you will know how to setup a good production pipeline.

But I really think, this idea is very feasble, I know great skill will be needed for the textures, thats the area I need the most help in :)

Help me out here Raptor! together we can come up with something that will most definately rock :)
 
Last edited:
That's fine. I'd still like to see one that is done and be able to say, here, this is the best I have. How passable is it?

If you could send me the project files for that as an export or something I'd be happy to work on it to see what I can come up with lighting wise and so forth
and share idea's on what is working and what isn't.

I think the modelling and texturing is fine. Now the lighting and other tricks to bring it home.
We know it can be done. But can WE do it.

//I'll try one.
 
Last edited:
Of course WE can ! :) you just need a little more confidence and vision, I've seen some of you work, its more than enough, don't underestimate your skills (Thats why I want to work with you)

I here what you saying about producing the "End" results, thats fine, but for testing purposes that would be far too much work, thats why I want to concentrate my effort only in the final work, and you know I'll give it my damn hardest :)

Also lets not forget, once you have video of people composited the background is not the main focus of attention, hence the peoples eyes are drawn into the characters, of course the whole scene has to "merge" together.

I've had a look at the "The Oge", and if you look carefully you can spot the the CG background, but thats only for those who are looking for it in the first place.

Another bonus I just realised is the ability of doing some nice DOF with this, the main characters will be in focus while the bacground elements can have real DOF properties (thats not possible with flat 2d images, unless you have depth map, but that needs to be create)

I'll fish out that link to the model (I did'nt model the Atrium Sponza) you should be able to load it into C4D.

What I really need now, is some test footage of people against greenscreen (with tracing markers)

This is help me in two areas:

(a) How well CG sets and people merge

(b) the compositing challanges needed to be overcome to get high quality results.

We can play around with the footage together, kick it back and forth, go with what works, drop those that don't. We'll learn on the way, and in the end when we perfect it we can sell the tutorials as DVD's :) ok I'm kidding about the DVDs!

But just think of what we could accomplish, The holy grail of VFX, Matchmoving and CGI and Compositing!

And finally, it does'nt all have to be 3d, I think its about the balanced approach, only using it where its really needed.
 
I think this would be awesome, but I just hit the "intro" stage of 3d work.

Maybe once this gets started I'll have enough skill to contribute some.
 
I need to spend some time on shaders if I'm going to be doing outdoor scenes so I'm looking at that now. When I understand more I'll feel better about tackling this stuff. Otherwise I'll be backing up I think. There's nothing on the web but I do have a sample by Eric Smit that I'm breaking down. This particular one uses 21 noise shaders of different types. whew. I'll be a while.
 
Hey Raptor we got nothing to lose, trying is the first step, heck I haven’t done any outdoor stuff myself, one time I couldn’t matchmove and when I tried at first it didn't make sense, its was hard. But I kept at it and now I understand it, same with composting, I know zero about it but I've spent the last week pulling chromakeys, learning about layers, sky replacements, etc, and I gotta say the its coming along slowly.

Even if we fail to meet the objectives, at the very least we would have learned something, and that’s in itself is invaluable.

Every project, every tutorial, every test is a chance to learn new stuff, so whether we "win or lose" we still end up winning both ways..

Of course I'm not asking you to do it now :) take your time, let this project grow at the pace it needs no less no more.

@bballplaya

do you think maybe you could shot some video of a guy against greenscreen (with tracking markers) perhaps with some camera movement, say a hand held dolly towards him, or something like that, maybe even throw in a gun prop or something. If you can't don't worry, worth asking anyway.


coool :)
 
That clip is very impressive Anhar, I guess it will be feasible to use CG/matte painting to create my old world, middle eastern locations. Whew, that is a huge load off the budget! :)

(BTW - this will be a feature, hopefully shot next summer)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top