uTurnProductions
Active member
I've heard of the 180 degree rule for two people talking. What if its more than 2 people? Does anyone have any good resources on composition and continuity where theres more than 2 people.
180 degree rule for more than 2 people?
- Thread starter uTurnProductions
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Barry_Green
Moderator
Per Holmes' Hollywood Camera Work DVD set goes into extensive detail on this subject.
Gohanto
Veteran
Basically, I think the idea is the same no matter how many people are talking. You just need to be more careful.
The scene in LotR: Fellowship, where they're a bunch of people sitting around the ring talking about it is a good example of watching the 180 rule with a lot of people involved.
The scene in LotR: Fellowship, where they're a bunch of people sitting around the ring talking about it is a good example of watching the 180 rule with a lot of people involved.
William_Robinette
Shallow Member
The book "Film Directing: Shot by Shot" has a really good breakdown of what you can do as well.
Joshua Provost
Veteran
Yeh, I second that. That book is insane in how it breaks down multi-person staging with lots of pictures and examples. The basic rule of thumb is that for each combination of two-person interchanges with the larger staging, you must obey the 180 degree rule. Basically, there will be lots of 180 dgeree lines, potentially between each set of people that interact. Still, you need to watch how you edit it, so the viewer isn't confused.
iancarleton
Active member
Be Careful
Be Careful
From what I think ive learned, you should generally apply the rule to any scene really. If you start shooting from outside of your 180 safe zone, your audience is going to get confused, unless you use tricks to give them a reference point on where they are watching from.
Be Careful
From what I think ive learned, you should generally apply the rule to any scene really. If you start shooting from outside of your 180 safe zone, your audience is going to get confused, unless you use tricks to give them a reference point on where they are watching from.
uTurnProductions
Active member
I understand how to do it with 2 people facing each other and talking. How about three?
let me draw a diagram so it's easier for all of us to understand:
pretend like those three are people
where would I position the camera shots?
let me draw a diagram so it's easier for all of us to understand:
pretend like those three are people
where would I position the camera shots?
Alex DePew
Señor Schmarty Pants
You could do it any number of ways. Your camera placement should be based on the tone and nature of the scene as well as keeping editing in mind. Here are a couple ways for you to look at.
The first one is simple. Stay in the middle. The camera becomes your audience. They are stuck in the middle of an argument. It can give a claustrophobic, tense feel, especially if you snap camera 2 or 3 back and forth between the outside characters.
The second one works in pairs and uses a close up on the lone character as well as a wider shot of the two to switch between one set and the other.
The first one is simple. Stay in the middle. The camera becomes your audience. They are stuck in the middle of an argument. It can give a claustrophobic, tense feel, especially if you snap camera 2 or 3 back and forth between the outside characters.
The second one works in pairs and uses a close up on the lone character as well as a wider shot of the two to switch between one set and the other.
craigbowman
Veteran
Blocking is done not just with the diagram but in combination with the script. Who talks in what order is critical for example if you're blocking for a hinge camera or wanting to start with a right angle master using the third actor framed for an initial deep staging shot. The cameras which get activated for the current action line are by the actor triggering the hinge.
If A talks to B and then B talks to C and then B talks again to A then B is the actor for the hinge camera. B will cause the action line to change and activate the cameras for the external and internal reverse for the A to B, B to C, B back to A exchange.
If suddenly then A talks to C or C talks to A you've got you're original RA master to activate the new action line which you will already be on the correct side. Now you can activate two ext. and int. revs. on A and C as required. Should B interject, then back quickly to RA master then into the hinge again should either A or C get into it again with B.
Also which actor do you wish to identify with the strongest and which actor the least. That will determine whether you want to be more or less on/off axis for their eye line placement as well as who gets the best of the internal reverses.
If A talks to B and then B talks to C and then B talks again to A then B is the actor for the hinge camera. B will cause the action line to change and activate the cameras for the external and internal reverse for the A to B, B to C, B back to A exchange.
If suddenly then A talks to C or C talks to A you've got you're original RA master to activate the new action line which you will already be on the correct side. Now you can activate two ext. and int. revs. on A and C as required. Should B interject, then back quickly to RA master then into the hinge again should either A or C get into it again with B.
Also which actor do you wish to identify with the strongest and which actor the least. That will determine whether you want to be more or less on/off axis for their eye line placement as well as who gets the best of the internal reverses.
uTurnProductions
Active member
hey thanks alot for helping out!
i bought the hollywood camerawork DVD and it began to confuse me the deeper it went. it's good for reference, however.
i will find a way to get the book that was mentioned... thanks
i bought the hollywood camerawork DVD and it began to confuse me the deeper it went. it's good for reference, however.
i will find a way to get the book that was mentioned... thanks
