16:9 black bars question
- Thread starter benandaim
- Start date
rapsucks
Well-known member
480 with a squeeze like the DVX? Or DVCPRO HD with a rectangular pixel aspect ratio? If the former, then you're timeline will be NTSC anamorphic and you won't have black bars on the footage because the footage itself will be 16:9. The same will apply with the latter.
The only reason you would want black bars is if you had to export your footage to 4:3, which is almost never. If you create a 16:9 dvd, the DVD player will project the image correctly onto a 4:3 TV.
The only reason you would want black bars is if you had to export your footage to 4:3, which is almost never. If you create a 16:9 dvd, the DVD player will project the image correctly onto a 4:3 TV.
Hi Homer,
Can you describe your process to exporting a 4:3 project to 16:9?
This makes sense to me since the squeeze option clips off the top and bottom pixels anyway. I never thought of this particular workflow though and was wondering how you go to 16:9. I can only think of pasting everything from the 4:3 into a new 16:9 timeline
Can you describe your process to exporting a 4:3 project to 16:9?
This makes sense to me since the squeeze option clips off the top and bottom pixels anyway. I never thought of this particular workflow though and was wondering how you go to 16:9. I can only think of pasting everything from the 4:3 into a new 16:9 timeline
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Having the option to adjust your letter box in post just makes sense
Joshua Provost
Veteran
Depends on the project, I have shot in pretty much every mode possible. It's nice to have the flexibility to reframe and mask in post, but sometimes you need to shoot 16:9 and hand over the tapes at the end of the day, in which case SQUEEZE mode might be the way to go. Depends on if you need to cut in with other footage and how that footage will be shot. Also, if you are going for an aspect ratio greater than 16:9, like 2.35:1, then you can shoot SQUEEZE and still have the flexibility in post.
Endless_Static_Sea
Active member
You know what really grinds my gears? When people shoot something in 4:3, then add a letterbox matte, then export 16:9. It's got the black bars, and its squished. it's like a double widescreen. God that annoys me.
Last edited:
Endless_Static_Sea
Active member
kyle.presley
Well-known member
So that's what I've been doing wrong all these years...
Ok, question for you guys then....
In a few weeks I will start shooting an independent film with the DVX100B, with Redrock M2 Adaptor.
For framing purposes and the overall look, I would like this movie to be 16:9. I'll be editing in Final Cut Pro. What settings should I shoot with on the 100B, import footage with in FCP, and finally export the film with so that it will look good on a widescreen TV or projector and also on a regular 4:3 tv (adding black bars)? This has caused me a lot of confusion in the past, and since a lot of effort will be put into this movie I want to be positive I am doing it correctly.
Am I right in thinking shooting in squeeze mode on the 100b is the thing to do? (...while setting the viewer on the camera to show "black bars" won't affect the actual footage, right?) And if so, what capture and sequence settings should I use in Final Cut?
In a few weeks I will start shooting an independent film with the DVX100B, with Redrock M2 Adaptor.
For framing purposes and the overall look, I would like this movie to be 16:9. I'll be editing in Final Cut Pro. What settings should I shoot with on the 100B, import footage with in FCP, and finally export the film with so that it will look good on a widescreen TV or projector and also on a regular 4:3 tv (adding black bars)? This has caused me a lot of confusion in the past, and since a lot of effort will be put into this movie I want to be positive I am doing it correctly.
Am I right in thinking shooting in squeeze mode on the 100b is the thing to do? (...while setting the viewer on the camera to show "black bars" won't affect the actual footage, right?) And if so, what capture and sequence settings should I use in Final Cut?
Joshua Provost
Veteran
SQUEEZE mode would get you what you want. It's real anamorphic DV, will import right into 16:9 timeline and output 16:9 DVD. It will play correctly on 16:9 TV's and the DVD player will add the letterbox on the fly for 4:3 TV's. It's quick and easy and won't require you to do anything special during shooting, editing, output, viewing.
However, the best quality will come if you use anamorphic lenses with your M2 (not the anamorphic adaptor for the DVX), if you can find them. You set the camera to 4:3 normal mode, but the image will be anamorphic. After you capture, the NLE will think it's 4:3 footage, but you can manual set the PAR to 16:9 and go from there.
There is no letterbox preview option on the camera. If you turn on Letterbox, it will actually record those bars to tape. You don't want that. What you can do is set the display aspect ratio to 16:9, since you have the B model. However, be very careful. It has been mentioned here before that the 16:9 preview on the LCD overscans, much like a TV. It overscans on all sides, so there will be additional picture information on the top and bottom the you can't see. If you hit the menu button the screen will pop back to 4:3 and you will see the full frame underneath the menus, if you want to check that anything undesirable is in frame.
Overscan usually doesn't matter for 4:3 since you won't see it on TV, and it usually doesn't matter on the left and right sides, because those rarely show up on TV. However, it does matter when shooting 16:9, because the full top and bottom will show on 4:3 TV's.
On a recent shoot I shot SQUEEZE with the LCD set to 16:9, and I did have to hit the menu button from time to time to check the framing. After the first few setups, I got a feel for it and just got used to framing a little tighter, knowing it would look right during editing.
However, the best quality will come if you use anamorphic lenses with your M2 (not the anamorphic adaptor for the DVX), if you can find them. You set the camera to 4:3 normal mode, but the image will be anamorphic. After you capture, the NLE will think it's 4:3 footage, but you can manual set the PAR to 16:9 and go from there.
There is no letterbox preview option on the camera. If you turn on Letterbox, it will actually record those bars to tape. You don't want that. What you can do is set the display aspect ratio to 16:9, since you have the B model. However, be very careful. It has been mentioned here before that the 16:9 preview on the LCD overscans, much like a TV. It overscans on all sides, so there will be additional picture information on the top and bottom the you can't see. If you hit the menu button the screen will pop back to 4:3 and you will see the full frame underneath the menus, if you want to check that anything undesirable is in frame.
Overscan usually doesn't matter for 4:3 since you won't see it on TV, and it usually doesn't matter on the left and right sides, because those rarely show up on TV. However, it does matter when shooting 16:9, because the full top and bottom will show on 4:3 TV's.
On a recent shoot I shot SQUEEZE with the LCD set to 16:9, and I did have to hit the menu button from time to time to check the framing. After the first few setups, I got a feel for it and just got used to framing a little tighter, knowing it would look right during editing.
Well i always thought u'd shoot 16:9 these days for films, but this whole 4:3 with a matte has confused the **** outta me. So is 16:9 with added bars 2:35:1 ???? And if the above image is what u get when u add bars to 4:3 then export as 16:9 why would u want that look? How do the big boys in hollywood do it...please explain?
Joshua Provost
Veteran
Yeh, absolute, shoot 16:9, but the DVX is not a native 16:9 CCD camera, so there are all kinds of trade-offs. Test out SQUEEZE mode, if the quality is good enough for you, it's the easiest way to. Using anamorphic lenses isn't that unusual, either.
If you want 2.35:1, you shoot any of these ways to get 16:9 and add letterbox in post.
The Hollywood guys don't deal with this because they shoot film of native 16:9 video cameras. If you mean, how do they get 2.35:1 DVD's, it's a 16:9 DVD with letterboxing.
If you want 2.35:1, you shoot any of these ways to get 16:9 and add letterbox in post.
The Hollywood guys don't deal with this because they shoot film of native 16:9 video cameras. If you mean, how do they get 2.35:1 DVD's, it's a 16:9 DVD with letterboxing.
Thanks very much, Josh, that info helps a lot. I didn't know the display aspect ratio would cut visibility of the actual frame... I did shoot a couple of shorter Redrock projects with the display set to 16:9 the whole way through, and didn't notice any change later on, but I probably wasn't paying close enough attention to it.
DO NOT USE SQUEEZE! Shoot 4:3 and in post add bars. Then, when exporting in sorenson, define the cropping areas and export as a widescreen video.
This way you do not lose resolution and you will end up with a true widescreen video (not just black bars in a 4:3 space).
Um.... where did you guys get the idea that shooting 4:3 and adding bars is the wrong thing to do? I've been a cinematographer working in film for 8 years and this is how it is commonly done. Ever hear of Super 35? Super 35 is pretty much shooting 4:3 and then cropping the desired viewable space for theatrical output.
If you do however, want to shoot SCOPE, I strongly recommend using the anamorphic adapter and not to use the squeeze mode in the dvx model. The HVX, however is 16:9 native ccd, so widescreen is appropriate here.
This way you do not lose resolution and you will end up with a true widescreen video (not just black bars in a 4:3 space).
Um.... where did you guys get the idea that shooting 4:3 and adding bars is the wrong thing to do? I've been a cinematographer working in film for 8 years and this is how it is commonly done. Ever hear of Super 35? Super 35 is pretty much shooting 4:3 and then cropping the desired viewable space for theatrical output.
If you do however, want to shoot SCOPE, I strongly recommend using the anamorphic adapter and not to use the squeeze mode in the dvx model. The HVX, however is 16:9 native ccd, so widescreen is appropriate here.
